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Old 04-07-2010, 09:49 PM   #54
gregstec
Dojo: Aiki Kurabu
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
Yes, the mental taxation is incredible and is reflected by guiding the physical components inside you - stretching the right things, releasing the right things, winding and synching the right things - and I think there's much more going on than "extending ki" (more on that, later), which doesn't mean that the mind doesn't "lead the ki" . . just that the presumption I took from your original post "I'll do you one better" is that you extend the ki and the other stuff just happens. If that's what you meant, then this is the part I do fundamentally disagree with because (and as you mention below) there's also an immense amount of physical conditioning that happens in order to reflect the extension of the ki.
My intent (no pun) was to add another dimension to the comments of moving spine and hara, which is that the mind (as in ki/intent) leads the physical. It was by no means intended to mean that there is no need for physical conditioning to help establish those internal connections that make all that work.

Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
Bunch of stuff here . . I think the appeals to authority may be oversimplified, but don't disagree with the gist of the above. Basically, those are the two components of the puzzle I think are being addressed here . . and I think we need to keep highlighting that this stuff is BOTH mentally and physically exhausting. Since part of the disconnect and discourse that's happening (my opinion) in this thread is the highlighting of one over the other (by multiple parties and multiple ends of the spectrum) - rather than discussing how "this stuff" represents a trained skill conditioned in the body guided via intent (or "mentally handling forces via developed jin" . . or or . .)
No disagreement with all that - actually, I think too much may be focused on the physical aspects all the time so I may have a tendency to talk more about the mental to help balance things out.

Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
Well, I am interested, or wouldn't have asked. Not a setup, not a troll - just trying to get out from people working on "this stuff" how they are approaching "how it works" .. and I think your model of "believing in Tohei's ki approach" or however you're organizing it is a beginning step into tricking the body to not use local muscle (at least how I've seen this stuff demonstrated from a couple sources) . . but then there's the refinement, conditioning, organization . . which are iterative and inform each other over time.
Understood on your points here - although my recent posts were focused on Tohei's ki extension, his whole position on Mind and Body coordination has four principles; two of the mind and two of the body. A very simplified view of this supports what we both are saying that you need the mental and physical part to make aiki work.

Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
Hence, when you say that you move the "ki" first and imply that the other stuff gets moved appropriately by it . . I'm gonna definitely ask what the heck you mean by that
Maybe that was poorly worded by me - my point was that the mind leads and the body follows as conditioned. The mind here can be expressed as extending ki or mental intent; whichever term floats your boat. Again, a mental and physical partnership or mind and body coordination.

Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
We don't gotta agree, but don't take my disagreement nor pushback on how terms are approached or defined as lack of interest or even necessarily condemnation. We're all presumably chasing this stuff and I'm keen to hear what other people are discovering along the way. It'll all work itself out down the road as more info is revealed and people develop their skills and get hands on each other (part of the "vetting process").
Actually, we are probably in more agreement than what it may appear from this discussion - we are just approaching it from different points of view. Agree with the getting hands on each other, it is truly the quickest way to express your point of view and have it understood for what it really is - web discussions can only lead to more confusion and misunderstandings