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Old 03-07-2010, 08:55 AM   #16
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
Re: Internal (Hunyuan) Strength from a Yi Chuan Perspective

Ashe Higgs wrote: View Post
Steve, i'd like to apologize for your topic being completely derailed. Hopefully the activity here is at least improving the click through to your site.

Mike, those aren't a list of rules that's a list of our jibengong. Care to mention the names of these folks who've studied 'full time' with my Sifu?

By the way I cleared my schedule for that Sunday, so why don't you come by then? Does 10am work for you? 931 E Elliot rd. Suite 114.
OK, so maybe if you just gave us a list of there "principles" (or a URL, etc.) we could take a look at them? If you notice, my questions have been slanted at asking you what "principles" you're talking about.

If the way Cheuk Fung holds his chest is different (I would hesitate to call that element a "principle", but let's say it is, for discussion's sake in order to move forward), what positional principle do you use that is different and why is it different?

BTW, I shrugged off the initial comment indicating the "Hunyuan" is the same as "internal strength". That's not quite what Hunyuan refers to. Maybe "Neijin" would be a better word, although that's pretty general. Hunyuan is a more specific term and refers to a more classically specific form of strength. There are various levels of "internal strength" and various usages and not everyone puts Hunyuan qi as a goal of their art. I've never seen any indication of ILC talking about "Hunyuan qi" (I welcome any corrections) or Hunyuan strength, but it's worth pointing out that "Hunyuan" may not be a specific goal of ILC.

The Cheuk Fung interview in the OP seems to indicate that there's Hunyuan strength and then regular strength (only two choices), but actually there are a lot of in-betweens where people do legitimate neigongs (internal exercises) that don't necessarily come up to the level of Hunyuan qi.

That being said, my point is generally that there are only a few basic principles for internal strength and if any style simply lays out what their "principles" are, they almost always devolve back to the same basic ones that are codified.... assuming we're talking about people with enough skill level to do their art at a high level, of course.

In other words, when you cut to the chase and look at the real "principles", you'll find that Aikido, Yiquan, Taiji, Tongbei, Xingyi, Dabeiquan, etc., etc., all have the same basic principles. ILC may not have those same principles since it is a recently-devised family system, so that's prompted my asking the question. Of course technically the use of "Macro-cosmic orbit" would normally indicate that ILC conforms to the normal logic of styles that use "internal strength", but it's difficult to say. Since Ashe indicates that he is an expert, I was asking a simple question about principles that any expert should be able to answer.

Ashe, as I indicated in post #8 I will be in Phoenix on that weekend, but I haven't laid out my plans yet so I don't know when I'm free. I'll pm you when I get a better feel for when I'm engaged and when I'm free.

BTW.... a list of ILC's principles would certainly move the discussion forward.


Mike Sigman
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