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Old 01-26-2010, 09:54 AM   #17
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,996
Re: Where Did Ueshiba Morihei's Training Go?

Keith Larman wrote: View Post
Tenchinage. I was taught he liked to hold that pose at the end to emphasize the heaven/earth aspect.
Hi Keith,
Thanks for the reply. I could see tenchinage and that pose easily. But, what about kotegaeshi and that pose?
Around 1:18-1:21

Keith Larman wrote: View Post
Well, since we're an offshoot of ki society I suppose we're covered in your reply, but we push/pull test *everything* in Seidokan. During aikitaiso, techniques, even sword and jo work. And the expectation is that a student should rather quickly develop a stronger, more solid structure as they learn. So a weak push is all that a newb can handle so it is relevant there (test up to failure). But it is expected that an experienced student should be able to handle stronger and stronger pushes.
I agree wholeheartedly with you about the training. New people start with relatively weak pushes and you build up from there. How strong do you go? Push with everything you have? When we train, we run the whole range right now. If it's something new we're working on, we use a weak push. If it's something we've been doing and are getting better at, we ramp things up. At times, we push with aiki and that's when things get interesting.

Keith Larman wrote: View Post
Depends on where you get your "swordsmanship". Virtually no koryu train "left handed" in the sword. Swords (not bokken) are actually asymmetrical in mounting. In other words, there is an "outside" and "inside" of the sword and the tsuka (handle) is built with the idea that the right hand is near the fuchi, left hand at the kashira. The mounts on the saya work only on the left side of the body due to the placement of the kurigata. Hence it is drawn and kept on the left side. Also, there was (and is) a tremendous cultural bias against "lefties". But then... Once you study traditional swordsmanship you'll find that it is *not* a one-handed weapon. Even the "single-hand" draw/cut is accomplished with both arms/hands being part of the movement. And the cutting is done from the hara using the entire body.

So I would have an issue with you comparing Takeda or Ueshiba's *bokken* work with sword work. They ain't the same. And the fact that most swordsmanship is done with a certain holding configuration in fact completely irrelevant to the idea of doing it on "one side only" since all the movements require both arms, hands and full body integration.
Points noted and taken. Let me adjust/edit my questions to pertain to bokken work for two-handed use. Why do you think Ueshiba trained that way, though? And I see you used virtually no koryu ... do you know of any koryu that do? I'd expect that they wouldn't train fully that way, but rather have aspects of either hand use.

Keith Larman wrote: View Post
Lots of crappy Aikido. Shrug. Lots of crappy karate out there too. And judo. And everything else. Something getting popular doesn't necessarily bode well. However, it is a mistake to assume that an overall lowering of the mean due to a larger population of mediocre practitioners somehow precludes there being people still out at high levels. Just fewer.
True. And through the years, things changing so much could make it harder for someone of the skill level of Shioda, Shirata, etc to shine through. And some could want to stay hidden.
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