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Old 01-26-2010, 10:00 AM   #15
MM
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,996
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Re: Where Did Ueshiba Morihei's Training Go?

Quote:
Nicholas Eschenbruch wrote: View Post
Mark,
You seem to have put great care into your exposition, yet your intention remains unclear to me. Why did you put these points, and not others (O-Sensei's spiritual practices for example)?

Are your hypotheses rethorical, or are you interested in a "historical" discussion/ refusal/ confirmation?

Are you interested in how others train? Or are you trying to tell us these are the most important areas, and we should train that way? What about your own training? Are these aspects absent from it?

And, the most confusing bit, how do you know "the aikido world"? Mine may be lacking in many ways, but it is certainly not insular.

Would you mind clarifying?
Hello,

I don't really like getting into the "spiritual" aspect of Ueshiba and aikido at this point. At least with "aiki", IHTBF (It has to be felt) is somewhat possible. When you get into the spiritual, IHTBE (It has to be experienced ... directly) is the rule. And that's not exactly something one can do easily. More directly, who among us can get someone else to experience being one with the kami the way Ueshiba did?

If there's thousands of people at Aikiweb, I would think that some of them have knowledge outside of "known" areas. As Carsten Möllering noted, Tissier does train with that pose. I never knew that. So, to me, the question was worth the time writing it. Hopefully others who have seen or trained in that manner will post. Maybe they'll know why they do that kind of training.

Tohei and the Ki Society have push tests, yet those are hard to find in Tomiki or Shioda derived schools. Why? Ueshiba was known for having people push on him. What happened?

I'm all for a discussion. It isn't about these being the "most important" or telling people how to train. It's about comparison of what Ueshiba did or trained with the rest of the aikido world. Consider that Ueshiba had people push on him throughout his life. I would think that's something worth looking at. If your school doesn't do that, why not?

For example, say Shioda didn't train his students that way. That would be the disconnect so why did Shioda do it differently? Or let's say Shioda did but his top students didn't. Why? Somewhere there is a disconnect and a reason for it.

My own training?
1. In some aspect, yes.
2. Yes.
3. Working towards this, yes.
4. Definitely. No more 20+year techniques for me.
5. Not yet. My training changed just a few short years ago. Give me somewhere between 5-10 total and then yes.
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