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Old 12-21-2009, 04:58 PM   #39
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
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Re: Some similarities in Internal Body Skills between Chinese and Japanese arts

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
That pretty much goes into some detail on spirals and windings through the legs and to watch for the knees in particular. Granted, it doesn't give a specific "how-to" but then again, most would agree IHTBF to be trained.
Right... it doesn't go into any details on "how to". That's the main point, Mark. Also, that quote describes something that could be called "spiralling", but it doesn't describe classical spiralling at all.
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If you disagree, where would that be? Why?
Honestly, think back to how much stuff you read about in posts in the past about how to do I.S. stuff. At a certain level at least the written description can give people an academic idea of in which direction to look/think. Past that elementary level, though, it's pretty hard to describe something without showing it first. Conversely, people who try to learn things (figure them out) from descriptions almost always wind up doing something wrong (hasn't that been your experience, too?). So where I disagree is fairly easy to show but difficult to explain in writing. What I've been doing is making sure that people who are progressing nicely learn how to do these things and so they'll be available to show them to a wider audience pretty soon (plus I'm sure a number of them will get beyond what I've been able to do).
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I took that to mean you know about spiraling. So, I'm confused as to where you think things miss the mark.
A lot of people think they know what spiralling is, Mark. I run into people all the time who "teach spiralling". You see what a mess that discussion can be. Look at how many people on AikiWeb said just a few years ago that they teach ki/kokyu skills.
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Even you have trivialized Ueshiba's knowledge and skills, Mike.
I didn't trivialize his skills in that quote you supplied. I simply said that it's unclear how much dantien usage he had. That's not a trivialization at all, since most of the Japanese martial arts appear to have a southern Shaolin origin (look at their practice method similarities) and southern Shaolin (Nanquan) uses a different approach than the so-called "neijia" arts which use a lot of dantien control. As I've stated a number of times, the differences between those two do not mean better or worse. My opinion rising on Ueshiba's level actually has nothing to do with your statement. So I assume you must mean some other word than "trivialize", unless you were just doing a reach for some sort of equivalency to toss back at me? BTW... why haven't you been publicly asking Dan all these questions?
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And you've readjusted your views of what he knew over the years.
Let's be clear, Mark. You have posted a number of posts about Ueshiba that diminish his role in Aikido. The comment of mine you quoted doesn't diminish but simply states something is unclear. My readjustment of Ueshiba's skills is part of an ongoing attempt to see what he knew, not an attempt to make him pale in comparison with Daito Ryu or anything else.

Regards,

Mike Sigman
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