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Old 12-13-2009, 08:35 AM   #51
gregstec
Dojo: Aiki Kurabu
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,110
United_States
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Re: Dan Harden's PA Seminar

Josh,

As promised, here is a more detailed response to your post.

At this point I would like to throw out a disclaimer - this post (as well as my other posts) are personal opinions based on my past experiences and training in the aiki arts. They are not meant to reflect the views of my current teachers and should not be considered as such in any way; although it is possible they may have similar opinions, I do not speak for them - they are quite capable of speaking for themselves (especially Dan )

As Dan mentioned in a previous post in this thread, I came to him in August with an 'interesting' foot in the IS door. A small part of that foot consisted of some body movements from Daito, but the majority of that 'foot' consisted of the mental stuff I picked up from the Ki Society back in the 70s. I remember a conversation I had with Dan back in August where I stated Tohei was on the right track all along and all those Ki naysayers had mentally blocked their own chances of developing any true aiki skills - I can't remember Dan's exact response, but I do remember he was amused maybe he will jump in with some comment on this later.

Anyway, this unsolicited corroboration of my Ki Society training has convinced me that one way to get a foot in the door to IS/IP is to follow Tohei's four principles of Mind and Body Coordination - of course to advance from there, you then need to get with one of the IS Wizards such as Dan, Mike S, or the Ark.

As for some of the gems I mentioned, please see my responses to your comments below:

Quote:
Josh Phillipson wrote: View Post

...so....you can only approach it indirectly. (!) And in just this way it does and will continue to remain hidden in plain sight. So much of this existence's deeper reality is hidden in exactly this way. In physics we had a phrase .. "sneaking up on the problem"; when it did not yield to a direct approach/assault. I am also reminded of a (para-)phrase: "Who can know the heart of a man?"
The above sounds like your Robitussin talking actually, I believe it can be approached directly once the path has been identified - the trick is finding the right path for *YOU* (this is a gem)

Quote:
Josh Phillipson wrote: View Post
re: cones
Well I know of rods and cones; but that is not the type of vision or perception i think you're talking about. This is the first I have ever heard of what you two mention; so it shows how little I know. I'll keep my eyes and ears pealed. Frankly; I was a bit taken aback by those two last mentions of the importance of perception of the IP/aiki. I am one of those whose (poor) model of it is embedded fully and completely in the *physical* body. Certainly the mind and spirit are *in* the body (to one degree or another); and these factors must be central; but I did think of it primarily as a *bodily* training. The yi leads the qi of course..but a body effect. I didn't anticipate that; nor do i understand what you mean. but frankly; i do believe you that it cannot be typed out. so no worries there. i'll take it as a 'heads up'.
Again, some good Robitussin ramblings in there Let's just say that the Mind is the dominant and leading factor here - after all, have you ever heard it called Body and Mind Coordination ? no! it is Mind and Body Coordination - (this is a gem)

Quote:
Josh Phillipson wrote: View Post
That is very interesting. Thank you for sharing. I will have to think about how you wrote it; but it sounds almost like pointing to...like a mastery of emotion, and how it rouses (or can be used to manipulate) the body.
Don't know if that's what you were driving at....but I recall once reading that some of the stuff is likened to a man learning how to play his nervous system like a musician plays an instrument. That could be way off base; but that is what popped into mind.
Interesting point about the emotion perspective - no, it was not what I was driving at, but if you look at emotion as something other than logic, then yes, maybe it could be some form of emotional thing - however, I associate it more with mental imaging and intuitive feeling within all the body systems as well as an awareness of energies outside the body within your immediate vicinity (there may be a couple gems in there)

Quote:
Josh Phillipson wrote: View Post
Well; I can understand mastery of self. (to a point).
Can intellectualize control over subtle skills; queues; and mastery over mis-direction/trickery; but I think there is another side to this for a lot of people.. (not saying it's you guys! okay!?)
I wonder if this is a launching point for self-delusion in people. You know there are a lot of people that try to manipulate reality with willpower alone. (For instance: this is the heart of the 'commercial success' of a book called 'The Secret'; which I find to be a misdirection in thee highest order) I do not know what you are talking about for sure; and in fact; i don't think it's this; but manipulation of material reality with willfull self is the highest-law of the world's second oldest religion..
Also; it reminds me of how someone mentioned how Ushiro taught about the (importance of) eyes; and the lack of consensus; and just what is being pointed to. I don't know.
Personally; I have become wary of delusion with things concerning perception; for with 'training of the mind/spirit' the thing is...you are effecting the very instrument that keeps you grounded and keeps you tethered to what 'normal' is. Put simply ; if that 'instrument' becomes catastrophically/erroneously miscalibrated; who can say where it will take you? You certainly will be the last to know. (/rant)
/random thoughts.
robitussin. fnord.
I think your Robitussin had peeked with this one I just have two words for this: Positive Mind (this is big gem)

Quote:
Josh Phillipson wrote: View Post

anyway; thanks so much for all the interesting discussion; i feel like an oaf who's making a scene in a restaurant...you guys are the show; but it is so damn interesting; you'll have to forgive me for sticking my neck out and opening up my yap. i'll try to keep it down.
All the best,
Josh

p.s. Your website is very interesting and has some great launching off points. Thanks!
Thanks for your comments and I hope your cold gets better. In closing, I will leave you with the biggest gem (IMO) of them all that will help to get you going in the right direction:
"Get your mind out of your head and get it in your center"

Good luck in your training

Greg
(as usual, please excuse any typos - I have been cursed and just can not avoid them )
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