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Old 11-25-2009, 04:25 PM   #366
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
Location: New York
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,302
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Re: Internal Power Development Methods

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
OK, so Ushiro's much repeated comment and demonstrations and teachings involving "no kokyu, no Aikido" were meant to mean something else? I've just checked with some people who have been to a number of Ushiro's workshops (or classes where he taught) and I don't think anyone has a real quarrel with my comment except you. You, of course, now are in the position of calling Ushiro a personal teacher of yours and I don't want to get into a discussion where only a True Acolyte (tm) is permitted to discuss a teacher. So I pass. Check the archives, Mark. I've posted more explanations, definitions, pictures with line drawings, etc., than anyone ever on this forum. What I refuse to do is to go into discussions that require at least a basic understanding of the process; hence, my informational posts have been restricted to what I thought might help people get started. And you know what? While those many posts of mine have helped academically for people to understand some of the processes, I haven't seen where it functionally did more than that, when some of these people came to workshops and showed what they could already do. I.e., there's a limit to what you can tell beginners.

On the other hand, I'm not a beginner. You are. I can follow any explanation you have to offer. I asked you to explain about Sanchin (which I practiced in Uechi Ryu karate) and, as an example, Tohei's training. If you can't explain it, you can't. Either explain it or say you can't. If you don't know the answer and we have the fact that Ushiro teaches Sanchin to Aikido people, then try to find some other factual (no ad hominem) method to approach the problem. If not, it appears that you just made a set of posts with no bearing to the discussion of the thread.

Mike Sigman
Mike:

Sorry, I had to teach a children's class and could not expound on what I wrote earlier.

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
OK, so Ushiro's much repeated comment and demonstrations and teachings involving "no kokyu, no Aikido" were meant to mean something else? Mike Sigman
"No kokyu, no Aikido" and you would like to equate that as equaling Ushiro Sensei's Karate? Sorry, but apples and oranges kind of comparison.

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
You, of course, now are in the position of calling Ushiro a personal teacher of yours and I don't want to get into a discussion where only a True Acolyte (tm) is permitted to discuss a teacher. Mike Sigman
Where do you come to that conclusion? To use your own words: "it's called "ad hominem." It was you, not me, who was making definitive statements about Ushiro Sensei and his karate. I just simply called you out as wrong. Nothing has changed there.

Yes you have provided fruitful information to people. You have also chosen to play cagey and secretive as well.

On to some of your lines of thought:
1) Tohei's breathing exercises are very different than the ones used by Ushiro Sensei. I can say from experience (practicing both), that they do different things.
2) You talk about Tohei's soft power and you talk about Ushiro Sensei's hard power. I would not describe Ushiro Sensei (nor would he) as using hard power. Are you referring to his concept of explosive power? The larger issue is that you can have wonderful kokyu skills and be totally ineffective in a fighting situation without some explosive power skills.
3) You talk about Sanchin kata and kokyu power. Ushiro Sensei taught Sanchin kata as a means of developing some genuine softness and kokyu skills with the Aikidoka present. Sanchin Kata (the way that he teaches it) involves a lot more than that. It helps to lay the foundations for developing explosive power. It helps to develop the ability to neutralize the attacker through the establishment of an in-yo relationship between the two people. It involves some other aspects as well. His Sanchin kata is done very differently than the way that it is done in Uechi Ryu karate.

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
On the other hand, I'm not a beginner. You are. I can follow any explanation you have to offer. I asked you to explain about Sanchin (which I practiced in Uechi Ryu karate) and, as an example, Tohei's training. If you can't explain it, you can't. Either explain it or say you can't. If you don't know the answer and we have the fact that Ushiro teaches Sanchin to Aikido people, then try to find some other factual (no ad hominem) method to approach the problem. If not, it appears that you just made a set of posts with no bearing to the discussion of the thread.

Mike Sigman
This would not be another example of you engaging in an ad hominem attack would it? You made an erroneous assumption again. I simply had to teach a class.

Frankly speaking, regardless of the levels that I have or do achieve, I will always consider myself a beginner. The day that I begin to sound like you do at times, I will be ashamed of myself for such arrogance.

Again, the comparison with Tohei Sensei and Ushiro Sensei are not all that useful in my opinion.

In conclusion, you made a statement regarding Ushiro Sensei that I know is simply erroneous. You have attempted to try get me "prove things" according to your standards and tests in order to try and justify your statement as somehow being right. It isn't, and your "tests" will not change that fact.

If you would like some more detailed explanations of the limited understanding that I do have, then I have no problem doing so in a PM format. That comes with the basic respect and humility that both of us need to extend to the other as people who are sincere in their pursuits of their chosen arts. I frankly do not have to prove anything to you to prove you right or wrong, or myself right or wrong.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Marc Abrams
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