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Old 11-20-2009, 07:51 AM   #6
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,996
Re: Push Test to Nikkyo

Michael Varin wrote: View Post

What is the objective of this type of exercise?

Why do you believe it to be valuable?
Hi Michael,

We don't do this typically. It was just an example I filmed to see if I could start a discussion around internal skills and external jujutsu methods.

I think it's valuable to note the differences in approaches. Most jujutsu requires movement for kuzushi while aiki does not require it.
One downside is that very high level jujutsu can look like aiki to someone watching. But, for uke, he/she will *always* be able to "feel" the differences. Which is where IHTBF comes into play.

Michael Varin wrote: View Post
I would argue that you do physically move your body.

How are you using that term?
Well, yeah. I am moving. But, notice that under uke's pressure, when I turn towards uke, the point of contact between us doesn't really move much. And notice that my shoulder level doesn't change. Even though uke is exerting energy to try to disrupt me, I am free in my movements. It would look silly, but I could "hula hoop" my hips and nothing would change. I'm not resisting uke's attack. As Ueshiba noted, there is no resistance in aikido.

Michael Varin wrote: View Post
How do you see it as being different than a "traditional" nikyo?
In a lot of "traditional" nikkyo, you find tori/nage moving to "lead" or unbalance uke to start the technique. Just a quick search comes up with these videos:

Notice how tori moves as uke attacks. Getting off the line, extending uke in some manner, and then apply the lock. Kuzushi, tsukuri, and kake. But, in getting kuzushi, a lot of the times tori must move to try to "lead" uke outside of himself in some manner. Typically that's head out of alignment from shoulders, shoulders out from over hips, etc.

(Okay, before we get too off topic, I am not stating this is bad. I'm trying to compare and contrast aiki, which is internal, to jujutsu, which is external. Both aiki and jujutsu have prominent roles in the martial arts. Both can have high levels of skill.)

So, for me in the vid, I don't *have* to move physically to "lead" uke in order to gain kuzushi. I'm working on internal structure and internal skills to accomplish that.

As a test, if someone is pushing on you, do you *have* to move to gain kuzushi or an off balance? Do you *have* to move because if you don't, you'll get pushed over? If so, then IMO, that's relying on jujutsu methods.
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