I don't think the vetting preciess has been a problem at all. Which is why I encourage it so much. In fact I am big fan of people meeting testing, feeling, sparring, or fighting as many people as they can. I think it's the best thing right now to check, "IT" as a stand alone skill, or those who can actually use for real in something other than kata or a few tests. Go for it.
In particular I would STRONGLY suggest people keep putting hands on every master class teacher they can, then meeting the few guys outside of TMA talking aobut IP/ Aiki and how to effectively train it, and compare methods.
Not everyone is looking for the same thing are they? Therefore it stands to reason that not all will be happy with the same methods. That seems friendly, open and honest to me. The hard part is going to be deciding on something long enough to get all it can do for you, while checking other things out and or when do you see something else you want to train to incorporate into your internals. Some guys are just not going to be able to help you get to where you are trying to go, where others could.
Opinions of methods and approaches are just going to change over time, as people get more conversent in their own skills. IOW, some people who are impressed with so and so right now, are going to change their mind. I guarantee it.
There are no hard feelings that I can see.
Proper credit for information is another issue, but lets put that aside.
There is alot we agree on...I think most of it is lost in the communication process in digits here.
"This type of training".....
I agree with you on this and my sarcasm in my post simply does not come through in the beginning of it when I mention it.
I will see if I can explain it a little bit better. For me, as I am learning more, it is becoming less and less objectified as a separate and distinct part of training and more and more of my focus and what I am doing. I simply don't have enough skill or context to do it very well.
So I see it more as a conversion process from external focus to internal focus as I learn more and more..so yeah...I agree.
Although most of us begin from the paradigm that says that it is "this kinda training" since it is new and different than what we do.
A good example is how I viewed the distinction between BJJ and Aikido. Today I give no thought what-so-ever about that distinction...it is the same for me...training context is a little different...but no conscious thought at all.
So as I am exposed to the best guys I can find in TMA, Koryu, BJJ or what not....I find out that there are alot of things I thought were correct ways of training...only to discover that what I was doing was not good and incorrect...and now I do things that are correct.
Well I can agree on the one hand but then not on others. I can only say that there is a lot of sophisticated jujutsu and weapons work that is soft but is not internal. And it is....very impressive.
And that statement is not a way to make friends and influence people is it?. Is it better to say it straight, find better PC ways to say it? Or just let it go and not say it at all?
So yes, I do agree with what you are saying here I think which is there are efficient ways of doing things, inefficent/ineffective ways of doing them...and middle of the road ways of doing them too.
So, as you learn more efficient ways and they take over what you do in waza/application...your training becomes "more correct or efficient".
Some choose to look at these ways as being "the IT way". Which is really the point I was making...having a big "ah hah" moment over the past couple of weeks.
Efficiency is not really an issue here. There are many ways to do external arts more *efficiently* than others...far more efficiently in fact; and none of that is internal either, It's just better jujutsu, better weapons work, but in the end thats all it really is. More efficient movement. .
his really became very apparent to me with Ushiro this weekend watching him doing karate. The same karate I did for many years...although he did it in a way that was greatly different than anything I had ever experienced. Yes, Karate!
Aikido folks might look at him and say..."hey that is aikido...with a little karate flair added!".
I am not overly impressed with Ushiro's movement, neither are some others in the current IT crowd.
IMO, he, like a few others have developed a certain part of these skills. No, I am not talking about their fighting skills, or waza, I am talking about IP/Aiki.
FWIW, I would be counted among
those stating it is not aikido, nor will it necessarily produce better aikido. there are other methods more in keeping with aikido is.
"We know how the IP/ Aiki V TJMA equation is ending up in person, one be one; TJMA does not stand up very well, if at all. It consistently fails to deliver in the face of well developed IP/ Aiki."
Well Dissonance is a bitch isn't it.
However, you have to be careful not to swing hard back the other way and throw the baby out with the bath water.
I am seeing alot of folks feeling like they have gotten ripped off by their past training, sold a bill of goods by their organization, all their training was wasted and then getting on the band wagon in some very extreme ways.This is a concern of mine and it is not healthy.I have seen this in other areas as well. Such as military Chaplains abandoning their religions outright after experiencing the horrors of war down range and then feeling empty cause their seminary training did not equip them personally and spiritually to deal with such situations.
Do you really need to abandon your whole religion because of this, or do you need to figure out what is really going on in the situation and fix what is broke?
Well, there is a lot to be said for summations. I think some people were
ripped off. I've seen it happen. Others were not taught because some Japanese teachers simply are poor teachers. SOme Japanese teachers were not taught themselves. the lack of IP/Aiki skills in the arts speaks for itself.
I think the truth is always best. It usually let's the best in the arts rise to the fore, and the ones who should sink to the bottom usually do. I am virtually surounded on a weekly basis by spin, obfuscating and PC correctiveness in public presentations. In Budo, all that does is support organizations that produce more of the same.
I leave you with this. If I, or Mike, or Ark had remained...in... any of those "organizations"...we wouldn't be having this discussion, and you woudn't even know what you were missing.
Note, I don't suggest people abandon aikido do I? Is that what you think? I am actively teaching in Aikido dojos
weekly as well as teaching MMA. I just prefer IP/Aiki in MMA.