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Matthew Gano wrote:
The specific amount of time isn't the point. Are you saying you don't think the protracted history of racism against different groups of people isn't partly to blame for the general state individuals may find themselves in?
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Well, I dunno. We have a history in the U.S. of people arriving here with terrible histories of persecution, poor living conditions, etc., and in one generation becoming quite successful. I.e., in one generation people can pull themselves up to the top of the society in the US. Are you suggesting that not all people can do this? I.e., not all people are as able as others? What's that going to do to the theory that everyone is equal? Are you trying to throw a wrench into a close-held belief that people are not like animals but are uniformly capable across the species???
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I couldn't say exactly why Asians statistically seem to have done better.
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For whatever reason, it's a known fact that they do. Some groups tend to do better on tests (i.e., they figure out the right answers) than others. Should we discriminate against them or 'hold them back' for some politically correct reason which, in effect, discriminates against them and is a slap in the face response to all the hard work they did? Many liberals believe that this is exactly what should be done. Remember, it was liberal institutions that enacted Jewish quotas in our Ivy League colleges.
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Do those statistics differentiate between relatively new arrivals and those who have been here for those hundreds of years? Do they articulate anything about what kind of hardship those particular asians endured if any?
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There used to be a lot of argument about that in attempts to rationalize it, but ethnic neutral testing seems to indicate that Asians in Asian and emigrants to other countries, not just the U.S. tend to score better than whites and other groups, with the exception of the Ashkenzis Jews. But that information is a digression from the topic at hand. You appear to be looking for a way to justify discriminating against the Asian guy who couldn't get into the college he wanted, despite having scored higher than others who got in.
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Ultimately I don't think race should be a factor in accepting applicants to university or anything else, but I am willing to accept the possibility of arguments which address why one might consider it. I think if we're going to attempt to create laws that improve traditionally impoverished groups we need to base the criteria on the present state of individual need.
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And effort and ability. Already there are studies showing that letting people in with low admissions scores ultimately doesn't do them a lot of good if they can't compete, can't graduate, can't pass a bar-exam, medical boards, etc. Maybe if we just turned a blind eye to color and let the people who can succeed succeed in whatever field they choose to follow?
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I tend to agree. People do like to feel good about themselves and many have little understanding of some of their favorite causes, let alone how they compare to others'.
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I think many people don't/can't reason about issues, but instead base their insistences on their beliefs. In some cases the belief is a religious one. In other cases it is a partisan belief which they hold strongly.... but that's just as much a religion as the other one, because they will *insist* that others follow their beliefs.
YMMV
Mike Sigman