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Mike Sigman wrote:
Well, wait a minute.... many Asians who immigrated to the U.S. went through *centuries* of adverse conditions, slavery, and so forth. What about them? Yet statistically, Asians seem to excel by dint of hard work, and so forth...Give me a time estimate.
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The specific amount of time isn't the point. Are you saying you don't think the protracted history of racism against different groups of people isn't partly to blame for the general state individuals may find themselves in? I couldn't say exactly why Asians statistically seem to have done better. Do those statistics differentiate between relatively new arrivals and those who have been here for those hundreds of years? Do they articulate anything about what kind of hardship those particular asians endured if any? Ultimately I don't think race should be a factor in accepting applicants to university or anything else, but I am willing to accept the possibility of arguments which address why one might consider it. I think if we're going to attempt to create laws that improve traditionally impoverished groups we need to base the criteria on the present state of individual need.
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Should we discriminate against them, as in the original post, because we have favorite groups we want to pay back, and so on? In other words, when exactly do you figure to honestly start treating everyone equally and expecting the same work ethic from everyone?
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Certainly not. Demand the same work ethic, absolutely, but find ways to provide adequate access to adequate resources. I'm also saying where we see people in need, let alone whole societies in need (or subcultures/whatever depending on how one wants to classify things), I think it is smart to invest in their wellfare for a variety of reasons.
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Also there seems to be an undercurrent of "balancing the books". Shouldn't we look at the contributions and costs totally on all sides?
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I'm all for looking at the costs and contributions on all sides and evaluating the proper response based on that. I couldn't say what exactly is the right thing to do. Give one man 10 bucks and he'll use it productively and perhaps learn charity; give it to another man and he learns how to pan-handle; we ought account for both eventualities.
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It's not about discrimination... it's about peoples' favorite causes, which have all the zealotry of religious fundamentalism.
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I tend to agree. People do like to feel good about themselves and many have little understanding of some of their favorite causes, let alone how they compare to others'.