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Old 10-07-2009, 01:59 PM   #3
thisisnotreal's Avatar
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 693
Re: Aiki Physical Model -- Structure & Dynamic

With respect to the gyroscopics:

Well...i think gyroscopics come into it because of how Erick expresses the Juuji principle

Thomas Campbell wrote: View Post
That would be the effects of angular momentum from reading too much Erick Mead. To quote the good counselor (with affection, sir, not disdain):

[i][A fine balance must be struck and always try to keep them teetering at the edge of the sensation they are feeling for. If you don't do that and keep the dynamic toward ever less "firm" (apart from atemi) then the dynamic naturally tends toward the other gradient -- the testerone-competitive monster tends to jump in and starts the "me-bad" dynamic. It is not as helpful to development of good musubi connection.

Can you define "juji" and its application?

Several of O-Sensei's Doka mention it, one even calls the art "jūjido." Juuji or jūji ( 十字 ) is the cross-shape or sign of the cross (for those so inclined). It is a symbol, a physical principle, a template for technique and spiritual basis for contemplation of practice.

As kanji, 十 juu not only means "cross" and "ten" but also "whole" or "complete." As a symbolic image in Japan, the horizontal symbolizes Earth, and the vertical symbolizes Heaven, i.e. -- tenchi, the union of heaven and earth at the center. It is another means of depicting in-yo with the dynamic elements of the opposed eight powers (bagua) built in.

As a physical principle, juji depicts the action of perpendicular component forces. In motion in a linear plane, perpendicular forces resolve to linear diagonal forces in proportion to magnitude of the two components. Judo in contrast focuses on using or creating an offsetting pair of opposed forces (a couple) to initiate rotation. In an already rotational or vibrational frame, force perpendicular to the rotational or vibrational plane have resulting perpendicular forces that are not linear, because of the inherent angular momentum, the resultant force depends on where along the radius of rotation/vibration the output is taken. The fact of that momentum also allows the sytem to absorb a great deal of energy withou out readily perceptible change.

Juji in aikido presupposes that there is an existing rotational or vibrational energy to receive and gyroscopically transform a single input force into perpendicular output at a variable scale of radial amplification. That vibration or energy is ki no kokyu, or if you prefer the technical description, the physical application of the principle of virtual work on an instantaneously and infintesimally rotating body (at each joint rotational articualtion in turn and ultlimately at the collective rotational center of mass (tanden).

As a template for technique, heaven and earth are joined statically by their intersection at the center, and thus the center is arrived at by moving directly along the line. The conduit for kokyu tanden is established by feeling of that angle "lock" where the components of force are all cancelled in one dimension, leaving a complete freedom of movement there. The vertical dimension and the horizontal dimension of the figure are also joined dynamically by the fact that one becomes the other by simple rotation. Thus, the center is arrived at by spiral motion. /I]

IMO, gyroscopics comes up because of how he describes the force transformation in the body.
I think the idea is interesting; 'controlling orthogonal force combination'.

Here's my contribution to that steaming pile :
This idea is reminiscent of 'taking the curl' with 2 vectors (a & b)
a X b = resultant torque C

...Except with juuji as defined we are not providing the other vector b but rather providing the inverse of what was usually the resultant rotation/torque (i.e. via a dantien based manipulation); which results in an output vector, d, which is weird and unexpectedly will throw uke.

so it's not (as normal)
a X b=c %a curl b = resultant rotation c

but rather
a X^(-1) c = d % a inverse curl c = d , where d=net output vector

where the inverse curl is provided by a dantien rotation and bodyskill. Yep. I know. it's only the vaguest of impressions of an actual specific thought... and no; i am not selling this this as useful or correct...just some thoughts i had. (of dubious value)
Anyhoo...what actually sparked all that conjecture was a comment by Gernot (which i probably misunderstood!)

Check this post out: here<
Gernot wrote:
Finally: what kind of mindset develops then that can meet an opponent's "A" not with "B" or "C" or "D", but with "not A"?

(The answer, in my limited experience: absolutely f**king scary. And seemingly insane because it can't be tracked by ordinarily-developed thinking)
all that to say... umm.. you guys want fries with that?

p.s. As far as resonance part of Erick's TTT goes; i think it has to do with the double pendulum part of to 'pump', 'ride' and manipulate that part of it with part or whole of the body.

Last edited by thisisnotreal : 10-07-2009 at 02:05 PM. Reason: since you're going there...
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