Thread: Sagawa's Aiki
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:15 AM   #14
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
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Re: Sagawa's Aiki

I line with the OP wishing to spark a discussion. I already addressed several points in the book that were interesting -to me- in my earlier post. No discussion. Instead we have comments on his personality.
The comments on Sagawa's "perceived" personality are as meaningless to me as his "perceived" skill. As I said, due to his own isolation, nothing can be proved. It's his loss. We do have credible stories, public and private and we have his own stories and that's about it. I am far more interested in Sagawa in a rather self serving and community serving fashion- that he revealed for the first time in public- my own contentions that were argued against for many years - that there was and is;
A body method in DR
That the body method is to change the body,
That it is the body method after all that is at the core of making aiki happen.
That it was not openly taught
That he was told not to teach it accept to a few
Past that - I could care less about DR and what it chooses to do with it's "waza."

My own interests in DR aiki are almost totally outside of its use in DR waza-hence the mention of references to the aiki body-training the body. Where the "aiki body" makes aiki happen and where that leads anyone in the art or leaves others behind is the real kernel of the story. The mentioning of stopping teachers is a waste of band width. Stopping traditional guys in their waza is easy, a piece of cake. That's no measure of anything worth discussing. Fighting or sparring with them using aiki to reverses and control them is a whole different story. And where and how anyone can exhibit aiki in that forum-not this one- is the real discussion.

Training methods
Daito ryu suffers from the same problem that all the traditional Japanes arts do, ukemi. DR will never come into it's own as a fighting art until it takes it's aiki out for a spin and fights with it. And sparring with someone who has aiki is going to prove not only to be a real test, it will also sharpen and refine each others skills. Ukemi is not the way to accomplish that. In fact it will hamstring any real growth. The energy produced in the body with the DR method is completely fluid and responsive to continual change, both in connection and in strikes and kicks and will "play" just as well with master level ICMA as MMA, or with traditional weapons on to twin sticks and knives. Why? Because the method is consistent. Those willing to train the body method and then fight with it are not going to "look like DR" to anyone on the outside, but those on the inside almost instantly spot the body aiki. But if someone isn't training this way on a regular basis it's never going to just "happen." And that is where Sagawa's admonitions when speaking about others-kick in. He openly derided others for limiting themselves-when he did the same thing in his own fashion. Overal, I don't really care where he limited himself in the process.
The question remains-where do we limit ourselves?

Worthy of note is that what was at the inception of the art-Takeda experimenting and taking on all comers - plays out here today in the 21st century. Perhaps the only difference from then-to-now that the art suffers from lack of talent and an interest to do the same!
I don't expect most here to care about the discussion of DR aiki and it's body methods Then again the thread is about Daito ryu in the non-aikido section. So my comments are appropriate. Who can or cannot see its relevance to aiki in Aikido -from an internet discussion- has lost all interest to me. I am more than delighted-in fact I would love- to meet with anyone of any rank in both the aiki arts; Aikido and Daito ryu; from mudansha to Shihan to compare their own observations on aiki and have them display their aiki. Of late I have decided to keep my discussions for face-to-face and touching hands. It has a peculiar ability to close peoples mouths and open their ears in way's the internet cannot provide.
Enough of looking in the past. I have better things to do. I just wanted to state why I was personally interested in the book and what my own interests were about.
Good luck in your training
Dan

Last edited by DH : 09-02-2009 at 11:27 AM.
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