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Old 08-11-2009, 01:19 PM   #61
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
Re: True Internal Strength

Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
...if you view it as outrageous that he would co-opt a phrase and redefine it for its own purposes, can you see that you and your camp are doing, if not quite the same thing, something along that spectrum? You too claim ownership of terms.
Not at all, Mary. The term "internal strength" is well established as a reference for "internal martial arts" and has been a central aspect of MA discussions for years and years and years. It would be hard to pick a more ridiculous target to try to co-opt--especially when the re-definition is so remotely unrelated to the actual meaning. Of course, "Brand Name" aikido has so successfully redefined the nature of aikido itself to the point that people like Buck believe that the internal mechanics are "recent add-ons" or "plug-ins" when in fact Ueshiba demonstrated these things all the time.

Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
You claim that you own the definition of what is "internal strength", and assert that no one can possibly have it who hasn't drunk your kool-ade...and hey, it may be fabulous kool-ade, but that's not really the point.
Again, Mary, you miss the point so elegantly that it begins to seem to be your basic intent. Neither Rob nor any of the other IS proponents claim to "own the definition," of IS. But the many, many long and on-going discussions of the subject have established its meaning. Or are you saying that mathematicians "claim to own" the definition of "pi"? No, it's just a matter of Buck's strenuous efforts to redefine a term that has been well established for a long time. Pointless and ridiculous, which is why it gets ridiculed.

Second, no one claims that "no one can possibly have it who hasn't drunk your kool-ade"--certainly not Rob Liberti. Ark didn't drink Dan's "kool ade" and Forrest Chang didn't drink Mike's "kool ade". They all developed the skills of internal strength separately through relentless investigation of internal martial arts. In other words, "internal strength" is the technical essence of internal martial arts. And that internal strength is far from a monolithic thing. There are many methods and different approaches to developing and using internal strength in these arts. Bagua's internal strength and usage of that strength is very different from Xing Yi's development and usage; and Tai Ji's development and usage is different from both of those. Those three are the internal martial arts of China and they all vary. On top of that, many "external" martial arts include some degree of "internal" training, so there are many sources and many different versions that all fall within a fairly wide range of methods but have certain consistent qualities. So where do you get that anyone said "no one can possibly have it who hasn't drunk your kool ade?

Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
The point is that while Buck is serving up who knows what and smiling and saying, "My kool-ade is just as good as your kool-ade", you are yelling, "We are the only kool-ade stand in town, and the rest of you are NOT SELLING KOOL-ADE!" Honestly, it's enough to make a person stick to plain water.
Unless your version of "plain water" includes "energy supplements" and "artificial flavorings and sweeteners" like a lot of what's sold as "water" these days.

That's really more like the truth. There are a lot of people hawking that stuff as water when we can simply analyze the content and see who has plain water. And since internal mechanics was certainly a major part of Ueshiba's aikido, you need to recognize that the IS camp is simply searching for pure water instead of a brand name "Aikido (TM) water."


"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"