DH

Hello Shaun
I have been challenged repeatedly to either describe or demonstrate the martial attributes of aiki to the aikido community. I think it is fair to say, I have done so, repeatedly. Now with some three dozen teachers from various branches. Mike has met a series of teachers and students
So has Ark
Lets add in Ikeda who is doing his own research
There really is no more discussion to be had
Since that issue is now dead (accept for those few who drank the kool-aid) how about we move on to your next point:
The spiritual aspects and how they manifest physically as well as being the true defining aspects of Ueshiba's power.

I am asking you to step up and say, do or offer, something meaningful.

a) I asked for a hands-on demonstration
you reneged and said you no longer teach
b) You suggest you would take me to Osaka. I asked when?
You reneged and said you would have to try and work things out over time
c) You said there was a known list of teachers who got it from Ueshiba and we would be surprised who was and wasn't- on it (right here in this thread)
I asked for that list
You then said there wasn't a list.
d) I wrote you privately. You haven't responded
e) Now you are stating that to train with us (Mike Ark and myself) would bring skill but
"At what cost?" Suggesting you can offer power and a divine inspiration at the same time.

This continued suggestion of something unproved, the constant referral to a claim unknown, the overt statement that you have it and know of select sect of others who do too- is starting to sound rather spurious and arbitrary.

Take heart though. It was the meat and potatoes of much anger and assertion here for years until we all started to meet. Once met, all of that nonsense blew up in everyone's face when they came face-to -face and put hands on us up close and personal. As I said to Kevin, "Let's be frank. We established a dialogue after all of you guys were stopped cold at what aiki really is and can do." The way of aiki is defined, known and can be demonstrated.
We "established the dialogue," one by one, one after the other, Shodan to Shihan, every, single, time, by evidence and explanation. Now there is real work being done and everyone is improving.
So why not join in?
Think positive! Maybe you have something to share!
Since you demand on being part of the ever growing community exchange on the adoption of aiki into aikido training; maybe its time to step up and offer something meaningful.
Continually suggesting that it is "the spiritual practice that creates the power and aiki"- is a fine argument. You're just not making it very well. It just isn't cutting it. It leaves out answers to many crucial questions. How? Where? What physical means? What are the mental drivers? What institutes change? Who knows? Where are they? Who are their students that demonstrably show the veracity of the method?

How about we follow the standard that was set and demanded here.

1. Why don't you step up and clearly define Ueshiba's spirituality____________________________?
2. How, and where did his spirituality physically affect and manifest itself directly into the physical body without physical training_________________?
3. If you are arguing that -like we say- it is a physical training process but it produces different results-state what our results are and where and how they differ from yours___________________?
3. Who are the aikido teachers you keep talking about who "got it?"
4. Have they produced written works?
5. Can they- upon testing- do the same things Ueshiba did?
6. Can I go around you (with the people I know) and meet and test them?

In short, in light of your professed spiritual search- it seems you really aren't interested in helping anyone but yourself. Don't you think the best thing to do is to give Aikido to the world?
Where did I hear that before?
Thanks
Dan