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Old 08-04-2009, 10:16 AM   #174
Amir Krause
Dojo: Shirokan Dojo / Tel Aviv Israel
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 643
Israel
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Re: Religious Restrictions on Training

Quote:
Here is one possible harm though. Lawsuits. What happens when I, a female show up at your dojo and after 3 days I urn to you and say I will only train with women. If another man touches me during training I will go to the police and accuse them and the school of sexual harassment. If you ask me to leave I will sue you for discrimination because I'm female.
Can't you be more inventive then that?
If you look at the beginning of this thread, it seemed like the Sensei could have been also sued just for religion discrimnation.
One could argue you present a legal reason for seperating the practice of both sexes - to prevent such lawsuits.

Quote:
Despite the failed rationalizations that some religious people try and create, the separate treatment of men and women in these religious cultures is not equal. The women end up (at best) being treated as second class citizens. They suffer from countless instances of different levels of types of abuse and mistreatment (even violence) while being told it is to protect them and treat them as "special." The greatest loss is that the men are simply not placed in a position to learn from the type of wisdom that is gained from being a women (there is also a type of wisdom that is gained from being a man).

I strongly agree with Mary when she talks about the value of having women in a dojo. If a dojo, for what ever reason, chooses to to exclude by designated "types" (gender, race, age,.....) then I would not want to train in that type of environment. A teacher can create that type of world to live, teach and train in. I can respect that person for standing by one's choices, while at the same time, not agreeing or choosing to support that type of environment. That teacher does not owe me an explanation, nor I to the teacher; what we do owe each other is a modicum of respect so that we do not perpetuate a culture of violence due to not accepting the differences between us.
So you will not accept religious women of such religions into your classes?
Because the religions they worship reduce their status, how does that make sense?

Instead of creating a dialog, teaching them (men or Women) and trying to create a lrager scale enviroment, you believe it is better
to force "liberal values" on all comers? Against the very spirit behind liberalisem and equality to all?

I happen to know at least one great Person and a good Aikidoka (of another dojo) for whom I am happy he could find a teacher willing to accomodate to his religous requests.

Amir
P.S.
To me, the OCD case sounded like much more dirupting then a religious person not training with the other sex. Perhaps because my experiance has shown it is easy to integrate such people without much of a disruption.
Let us not forget, many here have often recommended people to refuse to train with someone wit whom they can not manage (feel he is abusive / does not let them train). Such behavior is acceptable in most cases.
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