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Old 07-12-2009, 02:19 PM   #39
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
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Re: Japanese Aikido Teachers - Translation

Quote:
Joep Schuurkes wrote: View Post
Nice misrepresentation of what Mike said, but yeah ... like whatever.
Only when Mike makes a list of stuff that Ueshiba did and that (as far as he knows) is not trained in daito ryu and when you then say "It is trained in daito ryu like so-and-so", only then this discussion will rise above the level of two six year olds playing the games of "Is not!" - "Is too!" In the mean time you can cut it out, I don't think anybody here really cares anymore...
I was pretty clear that I was discussing the fact that as far Ueshiba's internal training, other than Daito ryu no one -including Mike has produced anything.
There is:
no school attributable
nor any source definable
nor any group named that produced anyone
To rival Ueshiba's skill's at the time except for his peers in DR. How'd that happen?
Not the least of which is the fact that he started to be noted for these skills ONLY after training with Takeda, most notably in 1922.

Ueshiba can fully stand on his own and did after the early thirties and he did so remarkably well. He made some very significant changes and developments; both in the art itself, and in the way it was transmitted, that Takeda could NEVER have pulled off nor even "saw" with his mindset. Most of which made Ueshiba's art more accessible not only to the Japanese of the day but as George noted to the many foreigners coming in at the time. I don't think it was just a spiritual component though that drew people in. It was also the aspect of being able to do budo and not get quite so wrecked in the long run as many other budo did to the body AS WELL as the spiritual aspects that drew people in. I think in the long run it was that combination of Ueshiba's power and skill, rarely displayed in public, and the hopefulleness and openess that drew just as many as the budo aspects.

Anyway, I don't care enough to debate it anymore, except for the revisionist history portion that keeps popping up. Ueshiba went the way he went for good reasons. I remain a fan for some of those reasons. Sorry you see a a fight when it isn't nearly as serious as that-it's more of a tempest in a tea pot.
I see it that:
Many "read-into" his doka and his words things that really aren't there-Peter continually adddresses that
Just as well...many "read -into" his physical art looking for things that simply are not there and looking for influences that never happened-such as BKF and other thinking it was from Bagua.
Others look at his waza and look for a composite history that never occurred
Cheers
Dan

Last edited by DH : 07-12-2009 at 02:33 PM.
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