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Old 07-11-2009, 06:29 PM   #24
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
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Re: Japanese Aikido Teachers - Translation

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
I think you completely missed my point. I was specifically talking about Ricky and Mike's post about "listing physical phenomenon" in relation to "ki". And all this "ki" stuff that Ueshiba is doing is really Daito ryu aiki. It certainly isn't Oomoto kyo aiki, now is it? It certainly isn't judo aiki. It certainly isn't tons of other martial art aiki. Now, you want to apply some Ueshiba "ki" physical phenomenons and put them into some sort of listing, then check out Ueshiba and the Daito ryu greats because they all did the same stuff -- they used aiki as taught to them by Takeda.
And where did Takeda get the "aiki" stuff? He certainly didn't invent it himself...it's been around for many generations. I think this constant BS about insinuating DR into discussions about ki/kokyu has a limited utility and after that it is clearly a "my style" sort of tangent that wastes time. Ueshiba certainly got some of his training from DR, but if you look at his douka he gives the credit where it belongs.... to a classical and traditional study of these skills that far precedes DR. I'm frankly embarrassed that the "Ueshiba owes everything to DR" stuff has gone on so long. I say let the people who keep bringing it up live with it from now on for what it is and what they are.

Quote:
I see where people get this lost "Daito ryu" connection thing. If you read my posts, I try to state that Ueshiba never quite doing Daito ryu aiki. NOT "Daito ryu", but "Daito ryu aiki". There is a major difference. That's my mistake as I didn't explicitly put that in my post. Sorry. I'll try to not do that again.
I think it's too late. You and Dan have way overplayed the issue of DR and Ueshiba. It's yours now. How many times have diplomatic indications been made that it's time to stop?

In terms of the list I was talking about of ki/kokyu skills in Aikido, it's got nothing to do with DR, Chinese predecessors, and so on... it's a clinical list of what we see people in Aikido doing. I have a contribution of something I saw Ueshiba doing that certainly did not come from DR, but I'll save it until I see a legitimate functional effort about *Aikido* being made in something like the AikiWiki. If I don't save it, it's a certainty that "Oh, we do that, too" will surface in a revised history, so I'll pass for the moment. Aikido is Aikido... let's drop the idea that Aikido is its precursors in the same good spirit that we don't mention that DR is its precursors.

FWIW

Mike Sigman
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