Thread: Shiko Training
View Single Post
Old 06-24-2009, 01:02 PM   #100
Eric Joyce
Dojo: Budoshingikan
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 179
Re: Shiko Training

Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Bear in mind that some of us actually learned it and tested it as we refined it in Judo and MMA over the years.
If you go waaay back on E-budo, the Aikido mailing list and jujutsu mailing list you will find there was a misunderstanding prevalent in those days as well that this equated to the "Ki tests" and other marginally useful training models in DR and Aikido that were known then.
You can read the words of certain Koryu teachers and well known DR students arguing that aiki was useless in a pressured environment, since a stress induced adrenaline dump would negate the "fine motor skills" needed to make aiki work in a fight. I argued vehemently-(the posts are all there) that this has nothing to do with fine motor skills it is a body quality that just simply-is, and that secondarily the use does not go away due to stress. And third, not everyone "loses it" in confrontations. They think and function and move. The way you train can have an effect on the way you perform.
It was about as successful then as talking about it..argue, argue, argue. It was obvious where there understanding was then. To be honest it doesn't appear much has changed in talking to them now.
Some people will forever see things as kata and "you do this and I'll do that." Talking about this type of training is like talking to them in a foreign language

The body quality you build is antithetical to the way most people will try to throw you. You become heavier, and more mobile at the same time. Frequently guys will exhaust themselves trying to throw you. Your body will not behave, receive force, transfer weight in ways they are use to feeling. A very good side benefit is that when you are no longer one-side-weighted in movement it becomes very difficult for them to sense where your weight actually is (which is more mobile then normal) so there is no telegraphing for movement, kicks and strikes. all while THEY feel transparent and obvious in their own movements.

Example: When grappling or driving force you can feel someone stepping or changing to kick or move, right? Against someone with internal skills it becomes very hard to move them, or they move in a way that "feels" very fast. The reason it feels so fast is that your senses do not pick up on it like they normally would. Now consider if they want to hit or kick you. You don't feel or sense the weight transfer and got a knee in the guy or face, or if you are in close, with no discernable wind-up bam you got some very heavy hands and elbows doing some serious damage.
If you were trying for a throw you might try to get under hooks and separate the shoulders /chest from the waist and drive or lift. That becomes hilariously more daunting to an internal adept as he is connected differently and can drive your own force back into you to so you either feel like you are pushing on a wall, or suddenly trying to lift someone who weights a ton or you find you can't grab the ground with your feet and generate a drive. I am assume you are converscent with a fit-in? It causes guys to constantly have to change up looking for postional dominance that never comes-thus leaving you open to feel and make openings of your own. You know that feeling of trying for throw and everything clicks and you feel like you threw yourself trying to throw a guy? That happens to them far more than it usually does when trying to throw someone with these skills.
Contrary to some popular misunderstandings it is NOT rooting and stationary. The body quality is highly mobile and flexible. A common comment I receive is that when tryong to throw me guy lose their feet. They become light because I am alsways under them even when I am over them! They feel a lifting force making it hard to get in on me. But this is instantly changed to heaviness in the blink of an eye.
Last, it is the lack of a need to "wind-up" that allows an internal guy to weight your arms and body and make openings for the hits to keep on coming.
None of the above matters if the person doesn't learn to fight. You have to learn to fight to use it in a fight. Otherwise you're kidding yourself.
Last but not least, it doesn't make you invincible or any such nonsense, but it is one hell of a plus. It isn't a tool in your tool kit- its the tool box.
I cannot stress enough to people though, that if they don't train to use it in a fight, they shouldn't kid themselves that they suddenly will be able to.
Thanks Dan and Budd for your thoughtful and helpful explanantions. Both of you are correct that this is something that has to be felt and experienced in order to somewhat grasp the concept of it.

Dan, you said you used this in Judo and MMA and refined it over the years to where if someone wanted to throw you (let's say harai ogoshi) that the internal training you have done and the way you conditioned your body over the years...that you are able to resist the thows? Not muscling but using your body in a way that neutralizes tori's throw? Even when the 3 principles of kuzushi, tsukuri and kake are executed as one?

I ask this merely as a curiosity thing and not to deny or diminish skill. I myslef would love to see and feel this but being out here in Phoenix, I don't think there are any people out here with this level of internal skill that we are talking about.

Eric Joyce
Otake Han Doshin Ryu Jujutsu
  Reply With Quote