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Old 06-02-2009, 11:57 AM   #124
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
Re: O sensei and 'correct ukemi'

Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Actually, that's not true. What I offered was the idea that while Ueshiba *may* have gotten some of the higher-level training from Takeda, some of it *may* have been from other sources, so it's hard to pinpoint, despite your many posts attributing all of Ueshiba's skills to Takeda.
No, actually I am correct, and its all there if someone goes back more than a few years to watch the changing of your position in writing.. If you are trying to state that your position has not changed-go right ahead.
I don't really care enough to go pull your post again. When people have pulled your posts in the past, you arrive at a different conclusion to them everytime, and point the confusion to others. I am content to just watch you revise your views as long as the information is correct. I have revised my own in the past several times. On my part in regards to the Chinese arts. It's not a negative in my view, its a positive, a part of learning. I'll be the first to admit it.

More closely to the thread topic, my point is sort of in line with Ellis' comment noting that Takeda didn't attribute his skills to the people that taught him and it would seem a little odd if someone kept popping up on a DR forum insisting that Takeda would have had nothing if it hadn't been for so-and-so's training. The point is that these constant harking-backs to Takeda are sort of bizarre and they've gone on for years now.
Again, history and lineage is stridently important to the majority of people in budo-always has been. Read any book, look at any interview. Many have written books about lineage and connections beetween diverse Koryu and their influences down through the ages and the affect it had on the later arts. Some have publications pending about that very thing, and are even relying on interest IN THAT VERY IDEA for success. I think its interesting, and since some like to continually point out the common skills shared by all Asian arts, then that in itself draws interest to "connections."
On the whole I can agree with your point, Mike, I just think you are making too strong a statement as it applies here.

Why not just leave it that these skills are found throughout Asia, as a generality, and then discuss some of the different emphases Ueshiba did without constantly dragging Takeda's name into it? Just a thought.
These skills are not all the same, only the very basic ones are the same. From there, the way to train them is different, and their use is markedly different. Even between schools of ICMA and schools of JMA.
That's all I am going to say on that. It's not what the threads about.

Last edited by DH : 06-02-2009 at 12:03 PM.