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Old 05-22-2009, 01:07 PM   #98
Allen Beebe
Location: Portland, OR
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 530
Re: O sensei and 'correct ukemi'

OK, I'm going to try to relate this to this thread (kinda sorta) but I won't be surprised or offended if this post or its answers need to be relocated.

Ueshiba sensei received (Ukeru) a Menkyo in Shinkake ryu from Takeda sensei. This would only be appropriate (correct) [Get the connection? Ueshiba and 'correct ukemi'? Groan . . . sorry.] if Takeda was qualified to present such a license. It is clear that Takeda spent a significant amount of time studying Jikishinkage Ryu (which consequently implies that he found that he had something to learn studying Jikishinkae Ryu and only left after he ascertained that he had learned what there was to learn. He later boasted that he could {in the end} best Kenkichi Sakakibara in matches 2 out of 3 times.) and I'm guessing that this is where he took authority from. It is my understanding that Takeda studied more than one form of Itto ryu, but that that occurred earlier in his life.

So my question is: Why is it that Daito Ryu seems to want to "Hang its hat" on Ono Ha Itto Ryu? Why not Jikishinkage Ryu? Or perhaps "Takeda ha Shinkage Ryu" or some other moniker unique to Takeda Sokaku? Not that I have anything against Ono Ha Itto Ryu. I'm just asking, "Why them to the exclusion of others? And, "Is there proof that this exclusive wedding of Ono Ha Itto Ryu with Daito Ryu came directly from Takeda Sokaku?"

Also, while it is pretty well understood that Takeda sensei was a formidable "weapons guy" before he made his "bread and butter" teaching Jujutsu, do we know that he passed on what he learned weapons wise to any individual or individuals? Does any one student or group of students stand out as great weapons guys in the same manner that a group of his students seem to stand out as great (Aiki) Jujutsu guys?

I'm certain it could be said that the time for great weapons guys had/has passed, but the same could be argued for (aiki) jujutsu guys and still there seem to remain standouts in both fields . . .

Anybody have insight into this?


~ Allen Beebe