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Old 05-21-2009, 08:58 AM   #85
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,996
Re: O sensei and 'correct ukemi'

Shaun Ravens wrote: View Post
Hi Mark,

Thank you for your comments and perspective.
Hi Shaun. Thanks for a civilized debate.

Shaun Ravens wrote: View Post
Sorry, not in this case...

Sorry to have to repeat myself from about a dozen or so other posts here on Aikiweb, alone, but this simply isn't the case. Repeating the idea that just because "you" haven't seen these things and/or that you don't know anyone else who has seen these things doesn't mean there aren't Aikidoka who can and are doing them and teaching the skills one would need to eventually be able to do them, too. I have personally seen them, felt them and don't find them to be anything outside of what a particular teacher might choose to share with any number of their senior students.
I find this quite refreshing to hear that there are aikido teachers showing and teaching how to throw ukes when they grab one side of a napkin/paper/etc, how to do techniques on uke when he grabs your feet, how to sit with feet crossed and receive a push on the head without being pushed over, how to freeze a person, etc.

I'm sure quite a lot of people would be interested in hearing more about these aikido teachers. I know I would.

Shaun Ravens wrote: View Post
Quite true. However, there are no techniques in Aikido, and I am not speaking of that in the way that Dan might in that with proper Aiki one doesn't really need techniques at all. Simply speaking the way of aiki has nothing to do with the use (application) of the principles of Aiki... in my opinion, I guess I should note...

Hmmm, there are lots of experts, certified in all sorts of things who are consistently outdone by so-called unqualified outsiders, or what have you. In any case, not having had the chance to face off with him, I am not saying anything about O-Sensei's sword skills, Are you???

Huh...? I guess I am a fan of both
Let me see if I can be clearer. In the realm of techniques, Takeda taught way more than Ueshiba. Researching and viewing Daito ryu schools shows this.

In the realm of teaching a sword art, Takeda taught one. Ueshiba didn't. So, no, that isn't saying anything about their skills. It merely states that Takeda taught what he knew. Ueshiba didn't. It's well known that many schools in Daito ryu also teach Ona ha Itto ryu, something they received from Takeda. Ueshiba ... never passed down any sword art. He taught some things with weapons, but nothing as detailed as what Takeda taught.

In the realm of teaching other weapon techniques, Takeda taught the use of the shuriken, the umbrella, and the fan. Ueshiba didn't. Watch Okamoto videos. I can't find any evidence of Ueshiba teaching these things in his Aikido.

What I'm pointing to is more than just articles and interviews. They are one small part of it. While my research isn't exhaustive, it also isn't something small.

What Takeda taught in Daito ryu is a lot more than what Ueshiba ever taught in his Aikido. (Please don't take that as being bad. I'm not making that point at all.) It's just a very, very hard thing to contradict the statement:

Takeda taught what he knew while Ueshiba knew more than he taught.