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Old 04-29-2009, 06:13 PM   #91
Kevin Leavitt
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Dojo: Team Combat USA
Location: Olympia, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Re: Dance, Wrist Locks & Sub-Teens

Thomas Donelson wrote: View Post
Did you have a reference for studies showing that straight line stresses from a gooseneck wrist-lock, in swinging with a partner causes injury?

The stresses in restraining a youngster are different from utilizing a wrist grab, allowing the partner room for movement, for discharging anger, and tiring out a bully.

People have posted exaggerated fears, with no studies or analysis of the techniques I am suggsting. I have searched for studies on the possibilities of injury, and find nothing persuasive.

Nothing of substance is being posted, about the risk of injury, but paranoid opinions, so you are correct, that I am unpersuaded. I hear some people expressing imagined fears. I suggest bravery, to achieve peace and harmony.

I think most of us here have enough experience with wrist locks to say that they can do some damage. I have had mine sprained and had ligments pulled enough to completely understand the damage they can do.

It ain't just the guy doing it that is the problem. The other problem is when Uke resist or "plows" himself into it and hurts his own wrist as well.

I have seen fellow BJJer carred off the mat with blown elbows and torn up knees from arm bars and knee bars. I have also seen guys rip tendons in the arms.

Heck, I can't use my left hand right now and need to get it Xrayed when I get back to the states cause I hyper extended it when I fell on it and bent it backwards a week ain't good.

You generate a fair amount of torsion and stress on the tendons and joints in wrist locks. It really doesn't take much to tear something up.

The other thing is this:

They are damed hard to do in a fight. How do I know? I have gotten my ass kicked trying to do those "goosenecks".

If you want to teach your kids how to control agression and how to hold on to a bully until they release, run out of steam or anything need to teach them some basic structure.

things like the clinch, the mount, Kesa Gatame, the Guard. These are fairly benign. they allow you to control the situation, they don't hurt anyone...and the bully knows he is in deep trouble once you have acheived control of him. Also, you students won't get in trouble for simply "sitting on" the bully. Oh, another good one..."Knee on Belly".

The bully can simply "push him down" and he can pull guard on the guy and it will look like he is being passive, yet he is controlling the fight!

Anyway, if you can't master these basic skills, you really don't have a snowballs chance in hell of actually using a wrist lock anyway. I know, as I have been there done that and do it pretty much daily these days.

Clincal studies, statistics...I don't need them. I have experience with this stuff.

What statistics do you have that say that teaching them without the proper training or experience is safe?

Why not ask someone how to do brain surgery, then pose the counter argument, "prove to me that doing brain surgery without going to medical school and becoming a brain surgeon is dangerous."

I mean, come on... your logic simply is not there.

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