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Old 03-15-2009, 09:45 AM   #17
George S. Ledyard
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Dojo: Aikido Eastside
Location: Bellevue, WA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,670
Re: The speed of a technique

Philippe Willaume wrote: View Post
Well we could argue that it is described in old European fencing/wrestling manuals. In occident we tend to present thing with either how we mentally feel or describing the net result. That is usually described with timing and distance and “fuellen” (feeling).

For example when you deflect a strike with your own sword all you need to do is really get you sword there by cutting downward (ie just throwing the poing not a typicical tashi chop-slice) and then you will have all the time in the world to move. You have cut all his direct line of attack. He will have to move his body if he wants to hit you and you have at least one direct line of attack. That line of attack will depend of the pressure he gives us.

You do not fight, you do not defend, and you just put your sword there almost cutting an empty space. because you are there already, You can move forward or back.
If you move back he will have to follow you because you can still extend or change through.
If you go forward he will have to defend or get hit

If we translate that to open hand, it is the use ki-no-nogare you are leading him, if you move back. And it you go forward it is the use of atemi.

Because for training purposed we are too far to fight against an organised opponent we have that notion of people over committing, or trying to grab our wrist for no real reason. But it is really the same as if we were fighting with sword, just from a distance that is not really “realistic” but convenient pedagogically.

Now call it vor, narch fullen, true time, true place, extending your ki or your intent
I really believe that it is two ways to describe the same thing, just from a different angle.

Hi Phil,
Western fencing, in its past, had a lot of theory; massive volumes were written by European fencing masters. I am not sure what happened but at some point most of that disappeared from modern fencing which is quite non-cerebral these days.

My wife and I met on-line and our initial e-mail exchanges were about the relationship between the two opponents in the martial interaction. She is a former national champion fencer. She started Aikido with Kimberly Richardson Sensei specifically to try to develop a vocabulary to describe what she did in her fencing. Western fencing has terminology to describe basic things like timing. They have terminology that equates to sen no sen, go no sen, sen sen no sen, etc. But they have little or no descriptive terminology for the "intuitive" or psychic aspect of the art, which means it can't be taught. Genie is convinced that the great fencers all do some version of what she does but they just don't talk about it at all. Her ex, who was her coach, told her that "It works for you, but it won't work for anyone else." I think she feels somewhat vindicated by her exposure to Aikido and Systema in which this stuff is an integral part of the practice.
- George

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
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