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Old 02-23-2009, 01:32 PM   #62
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 11

Peter
If those discourses have been edited to death than what's the point of even starting...oy!! Is there no means to access the original writings? Or did Ueshiba not write anything out and it was subject to "on the spot interpretation" of a largely ignorant audience?

I was always less interested in the form of his religious conversion and all the lectures attached to it, and more interested in where and how the physical result was manifested. In addition to that, where, in the midst of his long winded dissertations was he perhaps offering concrete advice on how to's to a largely disinterested crew, and the information was going right over their heads.
I can see discussions of "being one with the expanding universe" and "breathing in tune with universe" as his version of discussing (or trying to discuss) Daito ryu's aiki in yo ho a breath power training method. But the breath-power is is just a part of some other serious prior training in order to make it even viable. In other places where people are struggling to gain an understanding, of all the varous training methods Ueshiba himself went through and used, reveals that many of his thoughts and words regardning physical training are not in fact difficult to understand and are pointing in the direction every student needs to arrive at.
Example:
Quote:
Peter writes:10. 己が身をかはす為に敵が倒れる様に練習を積む事が必要である。
Onore ga mi wo kahasu tame ni teki ga taoreru yo ni renshu wo tsumu koto ga hitsuyo de aru.
[To accomplish this] it is necessary to gain training experience until you are able to take him off balance when you turn your body.
NOTES:
A. Again, Ueshiba stresses the importance of training and this is underlined by his use of the verb 積む tsumu, which generally means to pile up, stack, load something on to a vehicle, or accumulate by means of repeated activity. The sense here is of constant and repeated training until the response is completely second nature—in the same way that Ueshiba himself was able to discern the intentions of the attacker. He is definitely not talking about waza here, though he does use the term 術 in the next section.
B. Teki ga taoreru敵が倒れるis translated here as ‘take him off balance' and this is closer to the original meaning than the Stevens translation (see below). The real sense of the Japanese is that you train in order to do whatever is necessary to ensure that the enemy ‘falls'. This might well involve ‘taking his balance'—but does not necessarily involve throwing or executing waza. To see the issues here, consider the Aikido Journal interview with Minoru Inaba, about projecting power, and also the classic way that Gozo Shioda projects ‘power', in such a way that the uke simply bounces off him, as mentioned above. Of course, in some sense Shioda ‘throws' his uke, but in my opinion he responds to his uke's attack—and uke falls, as is stated in this section. The additional element here is that the attacker is behind, not in front, but the dynamics are the same.
The real key is the nature of the trained body that turns and how it affects those trying to move it. The normsl person trying it would recult in nothin happening. Hence the misunderstanding. As one of my teachers used to say when a normally traind person tried some of these things?
Dooo..esn't work!

I would not necessarily join those two practices; the Shioda bump and the body turn- together. Although they are sides of the same coin, there are different methods to train them. The straight bump is easier and comes sooner than training cross-line bodywork in drawing and turning the body as a unit. You're right that the chest bump isn't necessarily "a waza or technique" but it does involve waza aspects of timing and entry in a way that "simply turning your body and they turn" does not. The later example of "turning and they turn" will not work without all the attributes of the former in place but it's a purer aspect of the body quality. Some guys fall apart as the control goes out from center to hands-the connections fail. Again though kind of sides of the same coin.
Training
Ueshiba correctly pointed, and you correctly translated that it is in training the body. (Again we see the idea of focus on the body and mind instead of technique) It was his focus of training the body as a prerequisite for what he discusses later-that being to be able to manage rear attacks. That they, by their nature, demanded that body training. You are right in stating / interpreting/ translating (good God Peter better you than me) that the term "take him off balance" is more than technique. It is more correctly considered or viewed as the result of "matching" your trained body, with their energy / intent. The more correct translation is as an effect in carrying the trained body that causes an affect on the person grabbing pushing etc and not in a technique. Some aspects in feel is the negative side feels very ghosty and magnetic and the positive side is soft power that is compelling and hard to source to counter it. It is the combination of the two happening at the same time that is quite controlling on the uke.

So yes Peter I agree that your translation correctly expresses Ueshiba's idea; that one needed to train the body in order to unify the mind / body spirit in movement and it is that body that creates that effect of them turning when he turns. NOT doing waza to try and make it happen
Cheers
Dan

Last edited by DH : 02-23-2009 at 01:42 PM.
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