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Old 02-06-2009, 10:33 PM   #8
Dojo: North Winnipeg Aikikai
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 265
Re: The Magnifying Glass

Less poverty would mean more prosperity.
And my point was that the reverse isn't always true. More prosperity doesn't necessarily mean less poverty. We have in fact an excess of prosperity in many corners of the world today and yet poverty remains.

I think we are all conflicted, and we all encounter conflict. I would say that this is exactly the place from which to work toward living more peaceably. Being at ease means being able to relax a bit, which most aikido schools agree is a good thing. Being able to learn to forgive (but not indulge) ourselves allows us to be a bit more forgiving (but not indulgent) of others.
Are you suggesting that being conflicted is necessary to being able to live peaceably?

You speak of "inequity" and then refer to the "mighty" and the "low." Your terms are rather ambiguous, but the general impression your words leave is that there is a problem if some are "mighty" while others are not. Why is the fact that not all are "mighty" necessarily inequitable?

By definition, if some are disadvantaged by others, there is inequity.
Being "low" is not necessarily the same as being disadvantaged. Especially if your standard of comparison is the "mighty," being "low" may well be quite comfortable and pleasant and not disadvantageous at all. For example, if I compare myself to the "mighty" President of the United States, I could correctly say that I am "low" (or "lower" - but only in regards to circumstances and power, mind you, not as a person). I would not, however, argue that because I'm not as "mighty" as the President I am necessarily disadvantaged. This would be quite untrue. Even though I am "lower" than the President, I have all that I need to pursue whatever endeavour I choose and to live as I like. The obvious inequity between us does not need to be eliminated.

An oncologist must indeed be thoroughly steeped in cancer and must immerse himself in the problem of it. I don't know if this qualifies as "suffering." It is not necessary that she have it in her own body for her to nonetheless be intimate with it

My point was that it was not, as you acknowledge above, necessary to have personal experience of a problem in order to offer an effective remedy to that problem. In other words, it is not necessary to be "crazy and broken" (whatever that means) in order to help those who are; it is enough simply to know about being "crazy and broken" and how to resolve being so in order to provide a remedy to one who is.

What future would you have for human beings? What is your vision of heaven, utopia, or just a more generally perfect world? Do you wish for more suffering or more pleasure? Will you call me superficial for working earnestly for the latter, rather than the former?
There are far higher and nobler goals than those of the hedonist. If your main goal is to increase your physical pleasure, then I would suggest such a goal is very superficial. Mercy, justice, service, love, honor, holiness - all these are far superior goals. But they often interfere with experiencing pleasure. I hope that you would not urge the rejection of these things in order to magnify your experience of pleasure.

My vision of Heaven is the one offered by the Bible. Not harps and clouds and endless floating about, but being in the presence of the Almighty God of the Universe. What greater joy and peace could be found than in the company of the One who made me and the cosmos? Experiencing His pure light, His perfect holiness, justice, love, wisdom and power unobscured will be Heaven indeed.

A more perfect world would be one which more perfectly reflected the holiness, love, and wisdom of God.

There is no successful or useful charitable enterprise that does not look to its own well being. There is such a thing as enlightened self-interest and the greatest good in the world is usually done by those who understand it.
Looking to one's own well-being and putting one's well-being before everything else are two different things. The former is practical and necessary, the latter is indulgent and destructive.You sound like you may have these two states somewhat confused.

I wish all beings everywhere pleasure, happiness, joy, fun, humor, sex, adventure, health and abundance. I wish for them a path that leads to the same, and I wish for them the tremendous delight in sharing in a way that multiplies rather than divides.
All the things you wish for others divorced from higher ideals like perseverance, honor, loyalty, fidelity, and compassion ultimately become hollow and unfulfilling things.

Jonathan, please take no offense at my impudence. It would be far better for both of us if you simply were able to laugh at me. Then we would both know we've done some good.
Who says I haven't been laughing?



Last edited by Jonathan : 02-06-2009 at 10:36 PM.

"Iron sharpens iron; so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend."
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