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Old 01-18-2009, 01:15 PM   #189
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
Re: Using ki-skills for "aiki" in Daito-Ryu

Richard Haight wrote: View Post
Due to some behind the scenes talk and internet investigation I came to what is being called "ground strength". I do not disagree with this in any way as being a common fundamental to all internal martial arts. It is amazing how rarely you see people who know and can do this. I recognized this in my own training some time back - fundamentally it's precise posture.
Well, this is appropriate to my "argument" that there needs to be a bit more open debate. Based just on what you're saying, I'm fairly sure that you don't really understand what I personally would call a good groundpath. There are all sorts of levels, slight misunderstanding, etc., etc., and the benefit to open discussions of the baseline skillset is that a common dialogue is established. I think it helps everyone.

People who are trying to get the skills defined so that they know what to build will benefit. People who have some level of skills can improve themselves by formulating and articulating what they think they're doing, thus refining their own understanding. People who have some "status" (rank, etc.) but who don't really have these skills can continue trying to gather information so that they can say "I was already doing that" get to continue kidding themselves that they'll be able to get away with it ( kidding..... well, a little bit. ). People in different arts get to be able to see the commonalities in all the other arts. And so on.

On the other hand, if no meaningful dialogue is established, sure there are some good reasons why someone might not want to join in, but my suggestion is that if they don't know as much as they think they do then they wind up getting left behind... so there might indeed be a reason, a compelling reason, for even people with "secrets" to get involved to a larger extent.
If you look over the tests I wrote about, you will see that my limitations create a situation that requires precise posture. There are other things at play there as well, but it is enough to say we have common fundamentals or a common tree trunk. The branches may be different.
But I'm not convinced of that yet. So far, in regard to the best common example (Kuroda's video: the two tricks at the end) we haven't been able to hash out enough particulars for me to agree. Your comments about "precise posture" don't sound right to me because (as shown in Forrest Chang's "Simple Jin Tricks", stuff I do, stuff other people do, etc.) precise posture is not a real necessity for someone who has these skills. Heck, in the Kuroda video example where they're laying on the floor... that's a good example of how to use jin/groundstrength and not need a special posture. Timing? I would discard that from the conversation because "timing" is a key to any technique whether good jin/kokyu skills are used or not? Breathing synchronization with the opponent? Pooh... that flunks the IQ test, if you think about it. Using the Kuroda "laying on the floor pinky arm-wrestling demo" as an example of using jin/kokyu/groundpath/whatever does anyone see where "timing", synchronizing breath with the opponent, or special posture is a requirement? Not really. My point being that it's easier to focus on the actual skills/strengths of ki/kokyu stuff and debride the discussion of nonessentials. If Tohei is standing on one leg and withstanding a push from Uke, where are "timing", "breath synchronization", or "correct posture"? If Tohei, standing on one leg, absorbs the push and returns it with interest (without overt movement), where do we need those same extraneous factors? I.e., let's try to trim the discussion before anything else.

Speaking of those factors above reminds me of a video on YouTube. I know how to do this and it doesn't require precise posture, timing (other than the obvious), or synchronizing with Uke's breath:


Mike Sigman

Last edited by Mike Sigman : 01-18-2009 at 01:18 PM.
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