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Old 01-08-2009, 10:30 PM   #124
Buck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 950
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Re: Religious Restrictions on Training

Quote:
Anne Marie Giri wrote: View Post
Women are no longer chattel (that is property). We are have never been cattle (the livestock).

I live in South Florida and we have a large immigrant population, thus we are a very diverse population. We are not a monolithic "American" culture down here.

Also, how do you know the person I'm talking about is not a citizen born in the U.S.? There ARE native born Americans who convert to Islam. And that is part of the case, here. It just so happens the person who will not train with women in our dojo is a native born American not a foreign national. It's our foreign national friend who will train with me.

Respect goes both ways. By showing respect for his beliefs, he shows respect for my right to train with men...and he trains with me. Of the three that started in my dojo, he's the only one who trains at our dojo. Two of them do not train in our dojo anymore, just at their mosque aikido club. The one who trains with me and who has stayed in our dojo is an Egyptian national; the one who won't is an American convert. Go figure.

Also, the key word here is "reasonable" not just any accomodation. And forget whether someone gets sued or not. Anyone can try to sue for anything - it doesn't mean that they have leg to stand on though. It's just a matter of common decency and respect really. Schools do not need to go to extraordinary lengths but I don't think we should be a doormat to the PCism either. And that is not what I'm advocating either.

Like my direct experience, they will either stick around and find a way to train in a dojo with women and without conflicting his beliefs or they don't and find another alternative and that alternative exists for them - their male-only aikido classes at their mosque.
First, I don't have Ph.D. in the meaning of words, but I really think it is important to let you know that I meant cattle and not chattel.

Chattel meaning owned slaves. Cattle being a beast of burden, a creature that is easily domesticated, and dominated and is often use to describe human beings en masse, and specifically to this discussion women. Now some religions and peoples treat and feel woman are equal or even less than cattle. A quick search to an online dictionary will have the following stuff for the word cattle is related to in the word chattel. ETYMOLOGY of Cattle: Middle English catel, from Anglo-French katil, chatel personal property, from Medieval Latin capitale, from Latin, neuter of capitalis of the head . I thank you for your keenness, but I think I used the right word of cattle, and not chattel. Chattel is above cattle, because chattel means slave, and cattle doesn't.

With the rest... thanks and good luck.

Last edited by Buck : 01-08-2009 at 10:34 PM.
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