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Old 11-16-2008, 09:22 AM   #46
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 950
Re: Another harassment question

Ron Ragusa wrote: View Post
Flirting ... whether it's flirting or not is irrelevant since the attention is both unasked for and, at least in the first case, clearly unwanted. The instructor's behavior would be illegal in the workplace, why should it be any different in an Aikido dojo? How many incidents with how many different women will it take before you're willing to admit that maybe this guy has a problem?

The spirit of this dojo is being adversely affected by the instructor's behavior.


you make good points, if we knew that really was the case, all the facts and details. We shouldn't assume what is going on in this case. And suspend judgement; innocent until proven guilty. Again we see this situation through Tom28's eyes, and not hers.

If being and offensive was illegal we (women and men) would all be in jail. None of us are saints, and we have to be careful of hypocrisy.

We really need to hear from the woman, the dojo, the sensei all first hand and see them in person before we can start championing a cause and public hangings. Reason over knee jerk reaction is a proven powerful human tool.

We also have to be careful in saying if it is true what the sensei did is illegal vs. inappropriate, rude, uncalled for, etc. The work place is different from an Aikido class as I pointed out before. This is different from having a personal opinion about the situation based on what Tom28 said.

Only two women have been associated with this sensei and discussed here in his small dojo. Nothing physically or criminally has happened. We know one women didn't physically his comments, etc. again she had the freedom to show her disapproval and not continue with the class. The same right all people have. I don't think the first women's situation is criminal, but someone who was insulted by the sensei. Especially if Tom28 brought in another similar women to the dojo, where Tom28 became offended.

I think something that the law would need to look at is if he was assaulting and abusing women physically and mentally via Aikido and Aikido waza. Say used excess force causing trauma to her body while doing a throw. Kicking her on the ground etc. to choking her until she passing out telling to use Aikido to get out of it. All excusing his actions as part of Aikido training. Or if he sexually abusing females/children as previous sanseis have done and been convicted of doing. If this sensei is sexually abusing women it is the responsibility of those who know of this and report him. Especially if the victims are unable to do it themselves. But it doesn't seem that this is the case.

Tom28 seems to have stayed with the dojo in face of what is going on with his female friend that he brought to the dojo despite his previous knowledge of the sensei. He values more the class and the sensei over the situation, and he hasn't quit the dojo in protest. Nor has he confronted the sensei about the situation. Instead has brought up the issue to an Aikido internet group.

Assumptions are dangerous it has convicted wrongly many innocent people and allowed guilty people to walk. Not to mention hurt and embarrassed allot of people. I think that is why reason, facts etc. are a better tools to evaluate a situation over assumptions and hear-say. Slavery is full of such stories where slaves where beaten, or killed over the slightest rumors and assumptions, and unfounded accusations. I suspend my judgement on what Tom28 says. In his eyes it might be a crime. But he isn't the sensei or the women involved. Or unless Tom28 isn't a male, and really is the woman. If that is the case she should have left the dojo and approached this subject differently to get better results, like providing us with the facts that we can use to make an accurate evaluation. honestly to get the best results isn't asking an internet forum like it has been done here, but going to professionals or asking the net to be directed to the right professionals to contact.

Last edited by Buck : 11-16-2008 at 09:35 AM.