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Old 10-18-2008, 02:21 AM   #110
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Koshi Nage - Distance Between Nage's Feet

Quote:
David Soroko wrote: View Post
The waza that is yours, the one that you evolved, probably reflects different variations done by different teachers.
PAG. Well, it might do, but the devil is in the detail. I am not sure what you yourself mean by 'reflects' here. The term might suggest a mirror image, but is the 'reflection' of different teachers sequential or simultaneous? This is always assuming that the reflection is real, i.e., genuine: that the waza of Shihan X is actually reflected in my own.

Quote:
David Soroko wrote: View Post
You may have taken some parts from one teacher and some from another. By the same token you may have rejected certain ways of doing it.
PAG. You seem to be assuming that this is a conscious, logical process, but I have never learned aikido in this way. I have always been taught that the goal of training is to imitate as far as possible (with no conscious exclusions) the waza of the teacher. I believe that this is the SHU stage of SHU-HA-RI, but there is no conscious logical step to the HA stage. HA is not rejecting parts of any waza that you do not like, while keeping the rest. Nor is RI putting all the various bits together, like a patchwork quilt.

So I have been through the SHU stage with several different teachers (Chiba, Kanetsuka, Yamaguchi, Tada, Kitahira) and so have learned a number of variations of the same waza.

Quote:
David Soroko wrote: View Post
What is the logic you used to accept/reject a variation.
PAG. I have never accepted or rejected a variation, so there is no logic. If you think about it, I would be very unlikely to reject a variation from someone with the knowledge of Yamaguchi or Tada. The issue here is not one of variations, but of attempting the master the entire waza as Yamaguchi or Tada did/does.

Quote:
David Soroko wrote: View Post
I am probably oversimplifying the learning proces, but I think that the question makes sence never the less.
PAG. I think the question makes sense, but, yes, I also think you are oversimplifying the learning process.

P A Goldsbury
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