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Old 09-25-2008, 06:19 PM   #60
Toby Threadgill
Location: Evergreen, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 166
Re: Using ki-skills for "aiki" in Daito-Ryu

Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
Thank you for the clarification. It would be interesting to know if Joe Neal developed his internal skills through kata under Don Angier in under 6 years. But it is good to hear someone developed any internal skills by means of kata. I would like to know what skills he could manifest that were beyond the normal external skills as well. To me figuring out the criteria with which to discuss such things makes a lot of sense.

For aikido, I would evaluate someone by questions like:
Can you do ikkyo without pushing?
Can you do iriminage without pulling?
Can you do shihonage without lifting?
(At the time, this was meant to be in terms of uke's without internal skills of course)

If no, fine. But I probably won't be jumping on a plane for that seminar.

For internal skills I want to know:
Can you deliver force without committing weight?
Can you move freely without your balance being vulnerable to pushes and pulls on the line from anus to navel?
How long did it take you to develop such things?

I'm totally open to adding or revising my current list.

I believe Mike had some instructor test about pushing someone without moving your arms or back leg. I think I can do that to some degree now.
Mike also mentioned some good points about the ki tests in on of Tohei sensei's books. These are fine suggestions as far as I am concerned as well.


Questions like this don't accomplish much. That's why talking about this stuff is almost impossible in my opinion. Its difficult to agree on technical parameters that aren't hobbled by semantics. You've got to get your hands on people.

Concerning Joe. I watched him take apart a quite experienced BJJ style grappler once without even breaking a sweat. The poor guy had no idea what was being done to him and this was before Joe ever heard of Systema. All he'd done at this point was some western wrestling, kendo and Yanagi ryu. It was a very humbling experience for the guy who's father & teacher was an early and quite accomplished student of Rorion and Rickson Gracie.

Toby Threadgill
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