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Old 09-19-2008, 10:26 PM   #16
Allen Beebe
Location: Portland, OR
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 530
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Re: On Talking About Internal Training

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
I simply stated my opinion that people who "know" stuff well enough should be able to at least express how to do them, even if at a basic level. Your opinion may differ.
I agree completely. It seems to me that one should especially be able to expect such an ability from those that claim to teach.

Where it seems we differ (and of course you are entitled to your opinion and to express your opinion, I'm often glad that you do) is that I don't necessarily expect all individuals that 'can do' and 'can teach' to necessarily do so in the place and manner of my choosing. Would I like them to? Sure! Do I expect them to? No.

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
As has been noted before, the people who have at least some basic knowledge of the basic skills (not who is "very powerful".. a different topic entirely) seem to have no problem with at least a very basic dialogue.
Sure. And some folks just choose different venues for that dialogue.

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
It's the basic dialogue that I look for before I start spending time and money to go check out the "just in case" stuff.
I can see where this is very reasonable especially for you.

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
I hope you'll allow me to think that there should be some indicator other than just friendly recommendations?
Of course. However, I'll bet that if you received a "friendly recommendation" from someone you know knows this stuff and trusted, that would be good enough.

How about all the folks that can't recognize the tell tale signs of the "basic dialogue?" You can. But many others can't. Are they to take it on faith that all the dialogs on these boards are reflective of internal structure reality? I think you agree with me that that is inadvisable. So what do folks do to judge who to listen to? Take a friendly recommendation? Yes, at times. And that friendly recommendation is consistently, "Go out and feel it." Go out and feel it is pretty much the "mantra" of these boards.

It seems to me that people are left to go do what you and many others have done for years . . . go out and feel, and feel some more, until they have a basis of comparison and experience. Once that is established, then they can get pickier. And even then, like you, they should probably remain cautiously open to "unknowns."

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
What compounds the problem is the number of people who "already do this stuff"... but as Dan and others have pointed out, this doesn't always turn out to be true when the rubber meets the road.
Indeed. "The rubber meets the road" when there is the opportunity for physical contact though.

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
What I'm suggesting is that there were an awful lot of discussions on this and other forums where a few simple words would have been enough to indicate who really "already knew this stuff" and who didn't.
Indeed. But all of the dialog seems to indicate that dialog alone just doesn't cut it for those that don't know what to look for.

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
One of the big questions, and a valid one given the lack of dialogue over the last few years, is who really "knows this stuff" and who doesn't.
Well that raises another problem too doesn't it, one that you have expressed before? With a modicum on intelligence and a fair amount of reading one could possibly portray themselves as knowing more (the basic dialog) than they really are cracked up to be . . . when the rubber meet the road. This too is another argument, your argument actually, for IHTBF.

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Bear in mind that I think a lot of thought should be given to making sure the same problems of the past don't just slip in under new guises. Don't you think that's a good idea?
Yes I do. I also agree with you when you posted this:

"It's a matter of 'you pays your money you takes your choice'.... hit or miss and you have to be careful. The full range of skills is bigger than most people think, so some caution is needed.

All that being said, I don't think there's any real way to stop every Tom, Dick, and Harry who has even some bit skills (or thinks he does) from getting out there and teaching before his time. It's just human nature and it's going to happen. The important thing, in my opinion, is to get the basics out there so that the die-off of the core skills doesn't happen again. Beyond that I wouldn't get too excited about it because on the whole it's an occasion for satisfaction that something that went wrong is (maybe) going to be put right for some of this generation and the next generation. So what if the basics get spread, sometimes incorrectly or incompletely? In that case, it's caveat emptor and it's certainly a lot better situation than we've had up until now. And no matter who thinks they're good now and have "got it", there's going to be someone(s) better in the next generation. That's a good thing."

BTW, the advertisement for the seminar states:

These three instructors from three different lineages will share their budo experience during this three-day workshop. They will present different but compatible approaches to the physical application of techniques and principles from their arts of Aikido, Daito-Ryu Aikijujutsu Roppokai, and Takamura-ha Shindo Yoshin Ryu.

No mention is made of the teaching of "IT" specifically so this entire discussion may just be pointless!

Regards,
Allen

~ Allen Beebe
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