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Old 09-16-2008, 11:31 PM   #46
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
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Re: How Long and In What Manner to Great Mastery?

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
To clarify further using your hips as the primary generator for that kind of hitting it not going to work too well against people who have internal power and internal skill because the moment you shift your hips you will find that they instantly take your balance (probably without noticing).
Hi Rob
Again to quote one visitor an ICMA fellow "I didn't know, that I didn't know"
And it explains certain peoples almost utter lack of ability to deal with this. I can only say the materila I am reading here once again clearly and definitively demonstrates an ignorance of this training and therefore any credibility in the discussion. This ICMA fellow I mentioned stood there- virtually unable to move. We laughed about it. But he was clearly stunned. I think it makes it demonstable that any discussion with him prior to that-with him expressing his views would have proved to be yet another dead end and a waste of time. Yet he was absolutely sure.
IHTBF once again comes to the fore since so far 100% of the time, people are faced with training that they are inept to explain or deal with and had to admit they were in fact...all along...wrong.

Quote:
Also, I do mean that people are hit and hit incredibly hard - so there is plenty of real force. It's just that the way we are doing it results in the weight of the body not traveling with it or bracing it so it is not easily taken advantage of. I have a good friend with a fantastically powerful 1 inch punch. But he braces to do it. It's powerful for sure, but it is way too committed in terms of structure - and the structural weakness it exposes him to if he were say fighting 2 people at the same time. He is an accomplished martial artiest. He now trains with Dan because aiki is so obviously better.
It bears repeating that the generation of that punch of his is entirely external, and he like some here, Would have virtuallly no ability to enter into a meaningful discussion. Sadly though there is an inverse to that. You can go on other boards where the discussion is laid out and detailed. I have trained with two particular internal folks who wrote very detailed and lengthy explanations...who it turns out, have nothing, I mean nothing by way of skills. So possuers exist in all forms. you really need to get out and test those who want to talk about things on the internet. So far the vast majority I have read over the years don't bring anything to the table. Others aren't worth having a discussion with, only because they still think they get it when its obvous they don't, and others just mislead the public, mostly due to pride

Quote:
As far as that vector of typical weakness. I'm floored that it doesn't resonate with you. Think about shihonage. The uke is raised up on the line from anus to navel, then thrown down on the line from navel to anus. Kotegaeshi for example works the same way. There are a lot of other examples.
I donlt go on about vecotr weakness because its a limited view. As you now know and have seen we just take the whole bodies center. People who move according to the methods outlined by folks in this thread just get dumped. Irs just more of the same stuff that all of you guys are existing and quickly walking away from. It certainly isnlt any type of training an aiki men should be advocating.

Quote:
However, I think your observations and comparisons are very far off simply because you cannot comprehend the degree of power differential. Even if it is because of our terminology - it really doesn't matter. The question is what this new training means to the future of aikido - any other observations and analysis from so far off base is really just distracting and unnecessarily confusing when they are asserted in the declarative.

Hope that clarifies the issue(s).

Rob
I think you have very neatly defined the core of the problem in discussing this. As you have now personally witnessed with so many other visitors from a myriad of arts, they were completely unprepared for both the power differential and the ability to have their balance and center taking that had them simply undone.

It is -or I should say it -should be-noted how many people with serious credentials and decades of experience in Budo, not the least of which is some of its highest ranked western teachers who have felt this type of training with various men, have admitted it was beyond them and they are training in it.

When you start getting out there to show and train I think you're going to run into what Mike, Ark and I have all over. That is, while It has been very encouraging to see substantial men embrace and admit to information and training beyond their experience. Others...just don't have it in them.

For that reason Mike's advice proves true. Concentrate your energy on those who are asking for help. Even then, weed them out to ones who will work.
Let the ones who are convinced of their training stay where the're at.
I think the real discussion is past these ever decreasing nayayers, or those who still presume to know this. Why do you waste your time talking with them?

Heres a question. What do you think the manner is going to be for the road to great mastery?
Does it even involve Aikido™ as we now know it? Or any other singular art?

Is there another great art...in the development stage?

Last edited by DH : 09-16-2008 at 11:44 PM.
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