View Single Post
Old 09-15-2008, 10:13 PM   #31
Erick Mead
 
Erick Mead's Avatar
Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,442
United_States
Offline
Re: How Long and In What Manner to Great Mastery?

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
Erick, let's really get this over with once and for all.
If you are willing, and will be prepared to clarify your terms of art carefully. I take no issue with their use as long as we are both clear on what we are meaning.
Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
If you have at least that amount of skill - to not have a weakness in balance in the line through anus to navel - and can deliver force without weight, then state so now. Otherwise, everyone is going to continue to assume you cannot. But put an end to the assumption. If you cannot do these things state so as well. I'll even go first.
"force without weight." One of those terms of art -- and which differs from a physical convention since f=ma. That's fine as long as we are clear on the difference of convention. I will assume a bit and say that if you mean a strike or push, starting from contact or not, in which my center is not "leaning" or committing outside its stability zone at and continuing through the impact in order to create the impulse into the target -- done. I use no-inch punches to demonstrate/illustrate stable nagewaza projection. This was one of Mike's "instructor tests," as I recall.
Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
I can do these things minimally. I can withstand a very good push square in the chest when I have 1 leg forward.
Ditto. You are the first person on a "chest push" to specify a " leg forward."
Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
I can even make the person pushing feel like they are being crushed down with my mental intention (which I assume controls fascia - but maybe it is just magic!)
Don't know what this convention is meaning, as it is a static display that does not fit with our common practice. On the other hand, when I "bow" ( like arrow not rei ) into a munetsuki, it buckles uke's balance downward. When I "bow" into a iriminage it has similar effect, and does not require foot movement to accomplish . It has elements of "shoulder bump" I suppose, since it feels very like the release of a no-inch punch but with a definite downward component

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
When my feet are should width apart, I openly admit that I have a bit more trouble but I'm getting there. (Note there is no configuration I can come up with where I would expect to successfully off balance Dan or some of his students on that line from anus to navel.
Another term of art. You will need to be clear what the significance of the line is to the manner of push, as you have simply named it not described it. Specifically, it is unclear where the contact is for the push. We do not train to push on one anothers hips, if that is suggested, so I would not be able to say off hand. On the other hand, I can stably hold an able two hand tekubitori push, from flat footed to tippy toe and in between.

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
I don't even think they would need to be paying attention to me while I tried to push and pull them off balance on that normally weak vector.)
I've knocked people down without doing anything who ran into me while I wasn't looking. Beyond that, set-up demonstraitons are different because they provoke conscious interference with a subconscious intuitive system.

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
Erick, I will be shocked out of my chair if you state that you can do either of these things to any degree beyond total beginner.
Again, there are no objective standards so it cannot be said what degree one could establish. I do what I do, and I understand it as you have read. I have no need to assume other than Dan and his students are better at these isolated things, and even better able to swab decks with me. It does not alter my understanding one way or the other. Anyone can find someone better than they are. It is not clear to me that it is very significant except as a question of degree, since such things are not an explicit focus of my training.

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
Nothing in aikido teaches these things to any degree. We just learn to avoid those weak lines and how to deliver force with weight that we protect a bit with certain set ups and angles. I sincerely doubt that anything in weight-baring hard physical labor teaches these things either.
I don't know what to tell you except that apart from a college semester in shotokan, that's it -- 22 years of aikido, summer radio tower climbing in college, lots of solo residential construction, and two deployments where I did learn (by necessity) to use solo training visualization work. AIkido teaches what I have learned, whether explicitly or not.

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
This kind of direct request was made earlier. You declined to answer so I believe we assumed you conceded the point that you cannot do it or teach it yourself. Please put an end to assumption on this matter.
I trust by now it is clear that recurrent uncivil responses to my observations (apart from yours and some others) has formed a firm conviction that unilateral hostility is no environment in which to ask for trust or belief, so, really, what was the point? Given the experience, I relate this expecting no better now -- but I have been surprised before.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
  Reply With Quote