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Old 09-07-2008, 11:38 PM   #25
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
Re: Why isn't this showing Aikido as effective?

Philip Burgess wrote: View Post
I agree and see Dan's point, but honestly that is getting down to the micro level of pointing out faults of things which brings up more counter "what ifs" and variables.
No it isn't. It's a discussion of a gross level of movement. Such as where, the attacker stops attacking in order to set up his body to take the throw. Over, and over and over.
I can only suggest due to the level of commentary being offered that you find men of video #2 and you go and try what you are advocating in video #1 and then come and show it
There are some lessons you need to learn, not the least of which is what a continouos postional flow with strikes and kicks, feints and set-ups actually feels like from someone who knows what they're doing. Someone who is going to be disctinctly unresponsive to much of anything of the level that guy was doing -all while giving him him a couple of fistfulls for his trouble.
You're in for a very short and profound lesson on many levels of what live training really means-that ain't it.

And that is the snag with clips like this vs. a hot situation clip: say a security camera caught an Aikidoka being mugged in a parking lot and the attack is foiled by the Aikidoka- that type of "hot" situation. That type of clip would redefine the discussion on Aikido effectiveness and answer Kevin and Dan's concerns and others expressed in this clip.
Actually you don't need a "hot" situation. There are a whole bunch of men who would be happy to give you as much "hot" as you could ever possibly handle, without you getting hurt much and they would even make sure you and they enjoyed yourselves while doing so, made notes and went and haad some beer after. Think of it like a free education without the hospital time needed to prove the point. It happens all the time in gyms all over the world.

The "re-defining aikido" you are looking for has been going on for many years and discussed to death by men who are exteremely well versed Phil-extremely.
Again, all due respect you seem to think your understanding is equal to men here who have been training for decades, and who have some interesting experiences they could share.
I would suggest, what you are discussing is such old news that I am surprised anyone is being polite enough to try and fill you in.
Try doing a search for the threads where these types of videos have been debunked by hundreds of posters with experience an understanding you might find beneficial

Even though the clip with all its faults and short commings it does model effective Aikido techniques.
I think most of the waza shown is more in line with some low level jujutsu waza, and it shows the static positions of a choreographed response well in keeping with the fixed and staid straight line and one step attacks offered.

But, a plus to the clip is the speed at which the techniques are done it.
So are these
It's called choreography. We're all just waiting for you to get what that really means

The clip generally shows what we all us Aikidoka know. I think it is good for that purpose. If Aikido was about people pointing a finger the direction of the attacker and the attacker who went flying 10 feet away in mid air as a result, then I would say Aikido isn't effective.
Actually I would be very careful just who you think that "we all" encompasses. You have active duty military, bjjers, mmaers some ex bad guys, bouncers, active duty LEO and many other men who have been in the S#$# real time.
For some reason, I'm thinking it's a pretty sure bet that Kevin's, Roy's, Don's and many others "aikido" would you see your #1 video's subject's waza undone so fast you to put it on a video.

Of a secondary discussion about the power in the point of a finger, you might want to ask around about some men with real power. It isn't as fruity a discussion as you might believe, and leave you yet again with a very rude awakening.
I can only say once again that it looks as if all posters opinions of the various subjects here are all equal, Phil, but it only looks that way.

Last edited by DH : 09-07-2008 at 11:50 PM.
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