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Old 08-23-2008, 09:04 AM   #19
Kevin Leavitt
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Dojo: Team Combat USA
Location: Olympia, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Re: Defending Against Grappler Using Aikido

Joseph wrote:

The "intent" of the grappler is to take you to the ground and force a submission. It is not about "killing".
Are you implying that a grappler is not capable of killing? Yes, "intent" is an interesting concept for sure. A Greco Roman guy knows quite a bit about killing with his bare hands, I would venture to say alot. Neck Cranks, slams to the back of the neck etc....BTW he has access to the exact same tool box everyone else does. They just choose to be sportsman in most cases and stick to the rules of competition. They do know how to turn a fireman's throw into a incapacitating thing if they desire.

Martial blackness is hidden in all arts, to include the sport centric ones. they tend not to focus on that level of "competition" like the so of the so called DO or SU arts that seem to like to take a moral high ground, yet claim to NOT be about "competition". Yeah....Right! Competition comes in many forms. I tend to like the directness and honesty that at least arts like G-R and Judo take towards the whole competition/lethal technique thing.

Joseph Wrote:

As such, many of the young folk "look" only at the "outer layer" of aikido and see "lacking". They believe their is a necessity for going outside of aikido. They do not understand, that "aikido" is a complete martial art. It espouses the "intent" of universality"
Is it really "complete"? If so, why do you and I spend so much time outside of it? I am assuming from what I see of what you practice that you spend a great deal of time doing other things.

That said, philosophically, where does aikido begin and end? If you took that argument, then I'd buy it, as for me, my BJJ practice is Aiki.

A blanket statement though that "aikido is a complete art" really doesn't say much and doesn't really help beginners much.

It does though help the instructor that wants to shield or control knowledge or wield warped power over his student though.

Joseph wrote:

There are striking, kicking, grappling, throwing, locks, pressure points in aikido. It's just that the "many" don't see "it".
yes, they don't see it because their instructors don't teach it, or they don't teach it correctly and if they DO teach it, they don't teach them the realitive value of these things as it relates to the whole of the fight because they have never really used it, or tried to in a non-compliant environment.

If it is "hidden" it is hidden because the instructor chose to hide it, not because the students fail to see it.

Joseph wrote:

Now, as for all the other "groundwork" in the grappler's limited tool box, once I rip out his throat with the penetration of my "trained fingers", his attempted submissions don't matter much.
This one is my favorite....

I am always curious...don't you think that the grappler has access to these things as well in a fight?

curious, how much skill does it really take to train fingers? No one has ever been able to show me. I must not be exposed to very good "finger" skilled guys, so it is possible I am talking out of ignorance.

Sure, I get it, there are guys that train their hands to apparently reach in and rip out muscles, throats etc... Dan Harden and Mike Sigman have talked a great deal about this and it is believable.

I think Dan would agree with me though that positional dominance and control is key to even using those tools.

Don't make the assumption that grapplers have such a limited tool box, that just ain't so, he has access to the same basic tool set you do in that situation.

However, if he can grapple better than you, well you will be dealing with the same crap you are trying to institute on him.

Been there done this argument/logic a more than a few times...on the mat.

Joseph wrote:

It is the "intent", not the limitation of the technique
Well I agree, intent is very important, but it is not the only thing that is important.

I intend to be a millionaire.
I intend to be president of the US one day.
I intend to master BJJ and Aikido

However, techniques, tools, and sometimes just plain luck matter.

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