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Old 07-31-2008, 08:14 AM   #26
DonMagee
Location: Indiana
Join Date: May 2006
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Re: Grappling In Aikido

[quote=Dalen Johnson;212239]
Quote:
Philip Burgess wrote: View Post
I don't know about everyone else, but I am baffled to hear that people often think ground work is only, found only, and devoid in everything else in BJJ/MMA. Maybe it is a generational thing of those past the year 2000 to present who at this time grew up with the popularity of MMA. /QUOTE]

I believe I see your point.

There is a generation now that cries out, "ITs the only art that can take someone bigger than you" - and then trailing off and faintly heard...if at all...is the statement, "if they dont know it to." (which of course everyone and their brother is learning BJJ now, so that aspect and magic of gracie taking down someone bigger is no longer there.)

As well as rules of the game.
Every game has rules - I suppose the only one to really win would be krav maga - if you call killing your opponent winning. Traditional Jui Jitsu maybe with eye gouging, etc. may stand a chance - as well as a Thai boxers elbow to the cranium if there wasnt a rule against that as he was being taken down. (Maybe there isnt a rule about that...but Im sure there is.)

So all in all, BJJ is the new mystical Kungfu of this century.
Yes, it works, but so do the other arts mentioned, within their context.

The rules set forth, in order not to maim and kill people have shown that for a sport - one against one - BJJ (mixed...key word) with other arts, is a fine art indeed.

I know, Im one of those quacky guys who things that your mindset is the best way to stay out of a fight - so in the end it really depends on what your going for.

As far as Judo and BJJ, Judo was taking all the biting edges off of jui jitsu in order to safely practice - and BJJ refined Judo. (but you all know this already, and many of you know it first hand as you train in BJJ and/or Judo.)

Aikido was a big step for me, as I have always been inclined to strike and kick, never was into the wrestling bit - but I have come around somewhat and am interested in the potential combinations of such arts as BJJ and Judo with Aikido.

In fact one of our test requirements is Suwari Sumo..though we have not even really been properly trained in it - its more like a free for all unfortunately. So Im taking clues from watching youtube in how to do escapes, etc.

Peace

dAlen
I just want to touch on something here. By nature of training in krav maga, traditional jujutsu, etc doesn't mean you are instantly going to beat a sport fighter in a fight (not that you were implying that, or at least I hope you were not).

Many of the deadly techniques and those described in your post are extremely hard to do in real situations. For example, eye gouging. If you can strike me in the face, then it is safe to say you can attempt an eye gouge, however, a well trained sport fighter is going to be hard to strike in the face. It reminds me of the many times I've had to demonstrate this to guys who were very sure that pinching me, trying to grab my groin, eye gouging, punching from under the mount, etc was going to defeat my grappling. Even with my subpar grappling, there lack of actual experience in physical confrontations was apparent and they were unable to do anything.

So yes, while you could use a downward elbow to the spine to stop a take down (see Royce Gracie v.s. Jason Delucia http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN6PvPCrStI ) a proper takedown takes away the power of that shot ( see Royce Gracie v.s. Jason Delucia). And while a well placed knee to the face will knock out a guy as he takes a shot, a well place knee is not that easy if you haven't spared using that well place knee for a long time and drilled it into oblivion. Even in the example fight listed above, Royce was not really known for being good at takedowns, not compared to the good sport fighters of today.

My point is that sport fighters have very well drilled and well tested gameplans that hold up for the most part with the deadly added in. The deadly however is almost always not well trained, drilled, or tested. So when teh chips are down, most will probably be unable to uses it, or at the very least a sport fighter will be better at using it. (Reminds me of the time a guy bit me from in the mount, I sat up and poked my two fighters right on the bridge of his nose and asked if he wanted to keep his eyeballs).

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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