View Single Post
Old 07-29-2008, 09:20 PM   #8
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
Re: Pre War Aikido, 1930 through Iwama period

Salim Shaw wrote: View Post
The pre war Aikdio incorporated Judo techniques, major body throws, sutemi waza, sacrafice throws and leg take downs, basic newaza.
I don't know where you got the idea that pre-war aikido incorporated sutemi-waza. The only major instructor I know of that even taught sutemi-waza as aikido was Minoru Mochizuki and he created pretty much all his sutemi-waza based on principles of a jujutsu system he had learned. About the only thing in Ueshiba's aikido that could be considered sutemi-waza was the "aiki drop" where he would bow on the floor as uke attacked, causing uke to fly over him. Also, techniques where he dropped to one knee to throw. But the aiki-drop is still found in modern aikido, as, I think are the "half-sutemi" techniques involving dropping to one knee. I don't know of anyone who really taught full-on full-body sutemi-waza like Mochizuki Sensei, even among the most outstanding pre-war students.

And if you want to quote Stan Pranin, remember how surprised he was to find the "Budo" book from the 1930s with pretty much identical techniques to what Saito Sensei was teaching him in the 1970s.

As for the demo by Isoyama Sensei, it looked pretty much like standard aikido to me--what you'll find in pretty much any aikido dojo you visit, if maybe a little more forceful. But that's not the element that makes Isoyama great. So I don't really see what you're getting at.

You can see better in clips of Gozo Shioda. And maybe you should take one of the suggestions above and see Howard Popkin to get another view of Daito Ryu.

Best to you.


"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"
  Reply With Quote