Hello Mark,
For Morihei Ueshiba, I do not think that such treasured 'western' concepts of 'faith' and 'belief' enter into the question. I think you need to abandon, or at least to suspend, your 'western' empiricist ways of thinking, when reading O Sensei. Comments below (marked PAG).
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Mark Murray wrote:
I don't think it would be a hard stretch for people to say that Ueshiba believed in kami. But, at what point do people strain that understanding?
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PAG. Well, I have studied O Sensei's discourses in Japanese and I know that they are a major challenge, even for native Japanese. However, I think that it is quite wrong to say that O Sensei 'believed' in kami: at certain times, he was convinced that he WAS the kami in question.
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Mark Murray wrote:
What I mean is that there is a very defined difference between "faith" and "belief". The former is without proof and the latter is based upon evidence. People sometimes interchange the two. In other words, restructure the sentence asked to people:
1. Did Ueshiba have faith that there were kami?
or
2. Did Ueshiba know and believe that kami were real?
The first is what most people would undoubtedly agree with. The second violates quite a bit of Christian religions. (If you want to discuss this issue, please open another thread.)
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PAG. Are you sure the difference is so well defined? I think you need to know that you have quietly added another ingredient to your mix. This is 'knowledge'. How does this differ from 'faith' or 'belief' and how much do you think that O Sensei was aware of these three distinctions? So how could O Sensei at the same time 'know' and also 'believe' that there were kami?
For example, if you had been present, when O Sensei announced that a deity appeared and told him to do certain things, like build a dojo, and you discussed the issue, what would you have said? Here is a suggested dialogue:
O Sensei: "And Deity X appeared and commended me to do Y."
Mark Murray: "Wait a minute, O Sensei. Do you really believe in these kami? Is this knowledge, faith, or belief?"
O Sensei: "Grab my wrist..."
Mark Murray: "Aaaarrrghhh. You misunderstood. I was asking a simple question..."
O Sensei: "No. You misunderstood. I have just given you a simple answer..."
Mark Murray: "No, no. I think you misunderstood. I have been training with Dan Harden and Minoru Akuzawa and they have really opened my eyes about what you are really doing..."
O Sensei: (sighs): "Grab my wrist..."
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Mark Murray wrote:
So, with all that in mind, how many actually believe that kami exist?
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PAG. Well, you would have to ask, for example, the population of Aikiweb? You could start by asking Rev. Barrish...
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Mark Murray wrote:
Did Ueshiba believe that kami exist?
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PAG. I think that this is not open to question.
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Mark Murray wrote:
And if you're a Shinto priest, do you have to believe in the existence of kami?
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PAG. Well, the Catholics have sacraments, which are supposed to work irrespective of the 'faith' of the priest performing the rites (cf. some novels of Graham Greene). Again you need to ask the Rev Barrish.
Very best wishes (and I am not joking--I have added smilies to prove it).
Best wishes,
PAG