What I mean was from either end of the discussion-which most certainly overlap-it would be difficult to discuss. There are so many things wrong with their martial approach that "effective" wouldn't enter into my dialogue with anyone doing that type of work. I'd just say. "Stop it." Then probably start working on realistic approaches with a knife and show where to go from there.
Structurally, it would be a whole different approach as well.
I think that ties in with my posts over on the Ellis thread. In regards to structure, I've found the best approach is to, as you said, "Stop it." It's interfering with the internal work. So, I can understand that approach. In fact, I think I'm beginning to understand another little gem that someone once told me. That a person who has structure/internals/aiki will manifest waza differently. Oh, and yeah, I'm starting to also grasp the "Full speed...in the wrong direction" saying.
My current theory:
I had originally thought that I could work both internal training and aikido at the same time. Aikido after all, as Peter Goldsbury noted, was from Ueshiba who had "the goods" and the training (to him and from him in the early days) included the goods. But, today's aikido is a far cry from Ueshiba's early days.
When the body structure/internals/aiki isn't there or being trained, then the techniques are actually done in a different manner. Something fundamental is missing, so, naturally, there's a void that must be replaced. Nage moving around uke is one aspect that filled the void. There are others -- adding timing for example.
So, what we work on in "normal" aikido for techniques utilizes some different (at times, very different) body skills. Without the aiki that Ueshiba (Shioda, Tomiki, Tohei, etc) had, one must learn different skills to compensate for the missing structure.
What I hadn't fully realized was the disparate body skills. Adding structure/aiki can vastly change techniques and waza. It doesn't alter aikido as a whole, but it definitely alters the manner in which a person accomplishes, or lives, aikido. Kotegaeshi is still kotegaeshi, etc. However, the approach one takes to waza becomes an either-or choice. It is either structure/aiki kotegaeshi or it is non-structure/non-aiki kotegaeshi. There doesn't seem to be an "and" approach. One or the other.
Erg .. gotta run. Will post this now, though it isn't complete.