Originally posted by PeterR
Basically what Jim is talking about is completely right - if serious injury is caused on purpose it is ABUSE.
Hi again, Peter,
Well since I'm home today as it is a public holiday on May Day, I have time to write many posts
Just to look at it objectively, I have not seen myself any such thing so far in aikido, fortunately. But I do know that all the UchiDeshi of Osensei, who later went abroad to spread aikido in Europe and America did cause such injury frequently in demonstrations or in class, mostly on Nikkyo and Sankyo. They have all mellowed-down (with age probably). But one has to understand that they were just repeating what has been done to them during their own learning. In the old school, tearing a student's wrist ligaments with Nikkyo was almost a yearly ritual to toughen him up. It used to be considered a mark of love and affection from the sensei. And believe it or not, it used to be done affectionately by the sensei. I know this sounds shocking for us, and in no way I would like this to be done on me. But this is the real Budo training, and I cannot but admire these people.
Now to call it abuse, well Yes, it is, in our western point of view. I would say also, No, if you believe in cultural differences.