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Old 01-01-2008, 12:08 PM   #31
Location: Auckland
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 971
New Zealand
Re: I'm Leaving Aikido

Daniel Ranger-Holt wrote: View Post
Hi everyone


I think that is it, thats what i feel it is. I started AIkido because i wanted to learn self defence for the streets. This is what i was told i would learn at my dojo,
This is one of my biggest beefs with Aikido. And I think it's a fantastic art. But it's not an art that is always honest with people. Sure it teaches effective self defence for the streets in that there are people out there that have used it for just that. But if someone comes in saying that's what they're looking for - there's a bunch of caveats that person should be given in my opinion. But generally they're not. People love Aikido so much they have convinced themselves it's "all anyone needs" or "the most sophisticated art" etc. So rather than say "will it will give you some tools, but you'll need to allow a bunch of time, or train in a different way" they say "sure, I knew this guy once..."

See the thread on "exaggeration in Aikido" for some lively discussion on this one.


If i look further into Krav Maga and find its about killing people as fast as possible then i will have made another mistake and keep searching. Just at this point it seems like the next natural stop for me. Krav teaches grappling and multiple opponents, where as BJJ is just one opponent.
Of course Aikido is about multiple opponents as well. In other words, just because it says it on the brochure doesn't mean you'll be able to do it in reality. I always advise people to be cautious about choosing a style based on claims to protect vs multples - because I think none of them really do it in practice - it's just too big an ask to do reliably. The closest I've seen I think would be some of the concepts from Aikido (and if you read my history you'll see I'm *not* one of those who blindly tout Aikido as the ultimate art)


Exactly my point ive been doing aikido for two years, three times a week and in your own words, im "just a beginner" "what do you know" thats not good enough for a martial art in my option. I think i kind of knew all this as i was training maybe a year an a half in or something, but you kind of just carry on because you are with friends, and almost feel rude cross training. Im too nice.
I think cross training can go a long way to functionalising Aikido. People often mention that O'sensei's senior students were all highly ranked in other arts and more and more I'm thinking cross training enables Aikido. So rather than chucking it in it might be interesting to experiment with some cross training in a 'live" art (boxing, werestling, judo, BJJ, Muay Thai etc) and seeing how that informs your Aikido training. if your investment in Aikido is valuable but just needs something extra to activate it, it would be a shame to waste it.

And i disagree about Aikido working great as a bouncer,
Hmm...if your experience is different to someone elses in this regard, what can we take from that.
in theory its the best martial art for that kind of job. But the speed people attack you, throw punches and fly at you isn't within Aikidos rulebooks i have found. And it just looks pretty on you tube or when someone is running with a fist extended (not a real punch) but not when the split second of a fist is thrown at your nose
Agreed. I think there are some issues with training methodology. One of those issues is that the methodology does differ from dojo to dojo, so it might be worth looking round. Having said that there is a lot of "at my school we train realistically talk" online - iow you hear a bunch about people's different training method but every clip and dojo you see starts to look similar.

I think there are some exciting applications of Aikido from some of the structure based flinch defence that is around now - like crazy monkey boxing. The question is how many Aikido schools are in a position to start experimenting with this. Experimentation has never been a strong point of traditional martial arts.


No advertising, just saying what i feel. I left a religion once and people said similar things. Its very spooky how we get attatched to something so passionately, we almost make it personal to ourselves. Especially when its a martial art. I used to feel the same when everyone attacked Aikido. Its odd, almost cult ish.
I will agree with that. Not everyone and not all the time, but there are cultish elements I think in most traditional martial arts.

Id say one month in and feeling i can do something is brilliant for what ten or so classes? aikido im 2 years in and still dont even "feel" like i could do something.
This is why I would prefer live arts for real world defence. It's not left up to how you "feel" only to realise it doesn't work that way when you come to "do". Train something that gives you the opportunity to practice regularly vs fully resisting partners - i.e. spar. Don't buy into that "sport styles aren't good for real fighting" stuff - it's malarky. Evidence has shown time and again, from the judo v jujitsu competition of Kano's time to the first UFC in 93 - sporting styles make better fighters quicker. And in your particular case you shouldn't even be worried about the "but they have rules" objections, as you are working in an environment with it's own rules anyway. Many of which will be similar (you won't want to be dropping people on their head or crushing their windpipe)

As i said before, this video does not look at all like the Aikido ive been taught or the aikido ive viewed on you tube. So.... as for krav having elements of aikido i hope it does. Then my two years wont have been wasted. As for sticking with aikido, i do like it, but im not willing to stick with it any longer to make it effective. id say two years is enough time for it to be at least effective. In my opinion. And it hasn't been effective.
I train BJJ now. I find Aikido response come out natrually in BJJ sparring (so under stress and pressure) so it can happen. But I trained Aikido for more than 2 years, so therein lies the problem. That's why I'm interested in taking aikido and applying from a starting point of the startle reflex Because there's alot of folk like you who when a punch is thrown and they instinctively cover up rather than enter deeply are thinking "well aikido didn't come out" I suspect there's alot of opportunity to apply aikido from your initial reaction, it's just that your initial reaction is likely to be so different from what you feel it should be (based on what is done in the dojo) that you figure Aikido hasn't "stuck". But what if we're only talking about one split second being the problem. What if you can flinch, cover up, and then start to lead, blend, throw, control. It's a possiblity.

As i said before, its like the religion thing, being honest about what you do and admitting there are flaws there you try to ignore or block your mind off from asking, can be a bad bad thing. Almost cult-like.
*nods* that is a problem in some cases. I"ve said before (and been lambasted for it) that it's Aikido's general reisitance to change of trainng and critical thinking, and lack of honesty as to what it is and is not good for which I fear will put it on the endangered arts list over the next 10-20 years


But please please no one take anything personally...of course we love our art i understand that. But it is only that...a martial art.
Ah yes but be aware that although to you it is "only" a martial art others are saying "it's my martial art". In otherwords you have walked into Aikido to pick up some tools to to a job. So it's hard to see why people get so connected to a place to get tools. For most others on the forum, myself included "only a martial art" sounds a bit contradictory....:-)

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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