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Old 01-01-2008, 08:53 AM   #27
Daniel Ranger-Holt
Location: Luton
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 37
United Kingdom
Re: I'm Leaving Aikido

Hi everyone

Erik Jögimar wrote: View Post
This is something i've been fighting with alot past few weeks, the insecurity and worry that it doesnt work if i find myself in confrontation. Or should i say *my aikido*?
Last night i bought in new years eve at the biggest club in my home town, there were nine fights, five resolved easily, door staff there on time, two were physical attacks toward me one backhand as a short guy was walking away and another was an ashtray attack a swipe holding an ashtray. And my Aikido didn't even cross my mind to use, what i'm trying to say is, surely after two years it should have been natural to do at least something? Instead of the rather unsightly grappling, messy but effective takedowns that naturally spring to use. The AIkido i have been taught and i have been taught by three main instructors at our dojo...who all seem to disagree on certain things (which may have something to do with it i dont know) seems to be uneffective for a job where every night there will potentially be an attack. Erik i dont know how long you've been doing aikido, but say its a year, shouldnt you feel comfortable you could do something? A Thai Boxer whos been attending class three times a week for a year, or a boxer, or a BJJ would be effective...but as Aikidoka most of us after this time are still..."errrr will this work?" which is really really bad if your learning the art purely to defend yourself in a real life situation.

Clark Bateman wrote: View Post
Maybe it's not for you. Maybe it's not what you were looking for to begin with, hence your disappointment. Follow your gut, and you will find your way.
I think that is it, thats what i feel it is. I started AIkido because i wanted to learn self defence for the streets. This is what i was told i would learn at my dojo, and this is what i read online for the most part. But looking back, it was the wrong art for me, because the self defence it teaches you isn't real and i feel for those wishing to become effective in a short time 6 or so months, definitely not.

Don Magee wrote: View Post
I can understand your points, but you seem to be contradicting yourself. You say your job does not allow you to use strikes, yet you claim krav maga is better for your job? My training in krav maga was not about restraint, it was about killing people as fast as possible.

It would seem to me that a pure grappling art would be much more useful.
If i look further into Krav Maga and find its about killing people as fast as possible then i will have made another mistake and keep searching. Just at this point it seems like the next natural stop for me. Krav teaches grappling and multiple opponents, where as BJJ is just one opponent. Obviously in a situation with regards to my job i'd need the more than one opponent training. As i have seen so far, no killing, just stopping people fast. If that means hurting them in the process then rather them than me. It sounds cruel but ive seen how cruel/animal life and relentless people can be. I was an office manager before i did doorwork so was pretty much oblivious to how people can be in most violent situations. Im 28 my last fight was when i was about 17. I always had the size for doorwork and took it up, thinking my aikido would suffice as i natrually entered the job. But im finding it wont be near enough. The worst feeling is the feeling of being unsure. At our dojo there is a guy who has been doing boxing just normal boxing for a bit of self confidence, sure its brutal and basic but he said within 5 months he felt confident he could defend himself in a street situation and that was only training once a week. He's looking to cut his akido right down to do more boxing, i feel he will leave as for self defence he is seeing the same as me. A guy who left to do wing chun has never looked back, for the same reasons...but i know little about wing chun.

William Hazen wrote: View Post
Some of your post (as Don Hinted at) does not make sense but hey what do you know? No disrespect but you're just a beginner.

Again Good Luck.

William Hazen

P.S. If you're working as a bouncer at a bar Then Aikido actually works GREAT...At least that is my experiance. Restraint, Diplomacy and Martial Awareness are the tools of a good bouncer. Having a Good Left Hook is cool too but destroying unrulely drunks usually leads to to you getting destroyed in return either by his friends or the legal system.
Exactly my point ive been doing aikido for two years, three times a week and in your own words, im "just a beginner" "what do you know" thats not good enough for a martial art in my option. I think i kind of knew all this as i was training maybe a year an a half in or something, but you kind of just carry on because you are with friends, and almost feel rude cross training. Im too nice. And i disagree about Aikido working great as a bouncer, in theory its the best martial art for that kind of job. But the speed people attack you, throw punches and fly at you isn't within Aikidos rulebooks i have found. And it just looks pretty on you tube or when someone is running with a fist extended (not a real punch) but not when the split second of a fist is thrown at your nose

Yeh i have excellent self control though, the one thing i do have. In the four months, ive been slapped, punched, stubbed with a cigerette and not hit back, just got to the floor and restrained. CCTV in my town is everywhere, all over the clubs i work. I'm very careful of course some people i work with have a different approach. But thats up to them to face the consequences. I have nothing to prove with people. I just want my money and to go home!

Mary Malmros wrote: View Post

Neither aikido nor any other style is going to be all things to all people, so I've no issue with what you say there. I'm curious, though, if it was a case of being sold a bill of goods when you joined up, or if you heard what you wanted to hear. Were you actually told that you would be able to quickly learn techniques that you could use to subdue an angry drunk without harm to either one of you?
Hi mary, i was told aikido was a self defence martial art. Purely self defence. I must admit i wasn't told i would learn the techniques quickly. I just assumed within at least a year three times a week training, id be able to confidently deal with any attacks with my aikido, and improve from there. No one said to me though "you will be able to use this very quickly" so my mistake i said i should have as others did, left class within a few weeks or months...but im veeery stubborn and kept going for two more years thinking there must be some kind of light coming here...i didnt find it quick enough. So decided to leave.

Lyle Bogin wrote: View Post
That whole thing sounded like planted advertising, with the video add to match.

We should do a reverse one....I was able to lay the smack down with ease. Gators feared my ground techniques. I was a bouncer in war zone (special hand-to-gun unit). but I never felt complete until ....AIKIDO! changed my life forever
No advertising, just saying what i feel. I left a religion once and people said similar things. Its very spooky how we get attatched to something so passionately, we almost make it personal to ourselves. Especially when its a martial art. I used to feel the same when everyone attacked Aikido. Its odd, almost cult ish. Ignore the Krav Maga bits then, and focus on what im saying about the actual Aikido.

Don Magee wrote: View Post
After reading this again, I noticed a few more things that bother me about this. SO, I'm going to point them out (slow day here)

The video you post below has the exact same kind of training in it. The exact same kind of techniques. How is the training method different?

If you still only 'feel' you can do something, your training methods are still lacking. I know exactly what I am capable of in any given situation. This is a common problem with the types of training you are seeking out, and why I stopped training krav maga. 'Feeling' is not good enough.

After watching that video, I fail to see how it is any different than the aikido I was taught. Except for they didn't wear gi.
Ok then i should have come to your Dojo Don. The aikido you are beign taught sounds like the kind of thing i am looking for. But because everyone seems to have a different Aikido. Unless you aikido has a specific back to square one.

Id say one month in and feeling i can do something is brilliant for what ten or so classes? aikido im 2 years in and still dont even "feel" like i could do something. Your questions seem more like attacks and i feel ive touched a nerve. Dont take it personal. You're probably much much better at learning Aikido then i was. Im just sayin how i feel about it and why im choosing another art to try.

Don McConnell wrote: View Post
There is no doubt that if you work a job that requires you to use non-lethal force and in a controlled manner, you need to have concentrated quick training that will give you something to work with. In general, aikido does not provide this path. If you LIKE aikido, and are willing to stick with it long enough you will find that if can be very effective. If you somehow either thought or were told that you would gain a quick ability to have a good self-denfense repitore from aikido, then you were either wrong or were "misled".

I had much the same reaction as someone else who watched the Krav Maga sequence on Human Weapon.....dang that's aikido. Now I will grant you that aikido does not as a general rule emphasize the atemi, either punching, elbows or kicks that are shown in Krav Maga, but they are there. Its a sometimes unfortunate artifact of inheriting a teaching method from the east, wherein the student is expected to discover some things for themselves.

Well, I hope you find what you are looking for; my guess is that it will have some elements of aikido; they just won't call it that.
As i said before, this video does not look at all like the Aikido ive been taught or the aikido ive viewed on you tube. So.... as for krav having elements of aikido i hope it does. Then my two years wont have been wasted. As for sticking with aikido, i do like it, but im not willing to stick with it any longer to make it effective. id say two years is enough time for it to be at least effective. In my opinion. And it hasn't been effective.

Larry Camejo wrote: View Post
To be honest, it sounds like the OP went to an Aikido dojo and expected to get training that would better be found in a Bouncer training program. I think he should move on and find what will suit him better, but I get this funny feeling that he does not really know what that is (especially after the KM references). It also sounds like he has not been in that many real altercations due to the level of speculation in the original post, another reason why he may not understand Aikido's applicability to his needs.

No i dont really know what will suit me better than aikido at this early self discovery stage, your right Larry. Krav seems like a good choice at the moment. But even that may be wrong for me. After all, i thought Aikido was right for me at one stage. But at the moment it is hitting all the buttons. A year 6 months in i may find that its not for me and move on again cool, i may never get there and just end up with a mess of aquired skills. But im brave enough and honest enough to at least admit Aikido (for me) is not effective and im moving on.

As for not being in real life altercations as i said i have been doing the doors five nights a week for a good few months. I wont say where but its not hard to find out right? Anyone who knows that town/area of the UK will understand. Every night is a real life altercation. Granted not every night someone squares off in front of me and starts karate kicking me, but its near enough every OTHER night. Seriously, real life altercations is my job so maybe you didnt read / missed that i am actually a doorman i dunno. Strange one that.

Touched a nerve again? this is all going horribly wrong.

Erik Jacobson wrote: View Post
Do whatever you feel you need to do. However, blanket statements based on your own personal experiences with Aikido won't get you a cup of tea and a biscut.
Sorry about the blanket statements but i stress over and over In My Opinion, and My Aikido doesnt work etc etc. I can only say those things so much, you get the point. its from my perspective. Yeah i know i wont get tea and biccies. It's not really nice saying im leaving the art. Almost like im trying to rile people. but this forum above any other forum ive been to has the most mature and honest people so i felt posting something like im leaving the art here would open up interesting debate. And to my suprise. people have actually agreed with me or shared the same feelings. I just imagine had more patience to stick it out. Or have not been in a job or situation to make them sit and think about their own safety.

As i said before, its like the religion thing, being honest about what you do and admitting there are flaws there you try to ignore or block your mind off from asking, can be a bad bad thing. Almost cult-like.

There is an instructor at my dojo who is fantastic and i really admire him. His aikido is fast, swift and i think would be effective in a fair few of the situations i describe. Ive never seen him attacked with anywhere near a real punch etc. But he looks good and his Aikido i think would stand up to brawlers. But he's been doing it for 17 years.

Thanks to those who responded with kind words and support anyway. Sometimes we just need to be honest almost as Kevin Leavitt put it and if its not working, find something that will. Life is too short to spend 5 - 10 years learning a self defence art, when you can learn it in 3-6 months, then improve on whats there. The more i look into this, the more Aikido and the whole thing has really dissapointed me in fact.

But please please no one take anything personally...of course we love our art i understand that. But it is only that...a martial art.
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