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Old 09-17-2007, 11:39 AM   #21
DonMagee
Location: Indiana
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,311
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Re: Aikido vs. Kickboxing (video)

Quote:
Amir Krause wrote: View Post
You did notice you were talking of Demonstrations and not Training?
Further, I hate to break the news, but you can rarely prove or disprove the effectiveness of a technique by just practicing, even if you practice "free fighting". This way you could at most learn you don't know how to apply the technique in a situation , which may stem from one of many reasons:
I can't agree with you, I'm sorry. I did thousands of not hundreds of thousands of armbars. Prior to starting bjj in judo and in aikido (different kinds of armbars, but still). I never used armbars in judo because a pin was a safer route on the ground. It took me months in bjj to get good at armbars. I learned how to do them not from the tons of static drills (which helped show me what to do), but by learning to deal with the resistance a person will give to defend these armbars. The same is true with my jab. I have jabed focus mits, bags, the air, static people, water, etc. I have been jabing stuff from my teenage tkd days, to now as I get close to 30 years old. When I get in the ring with a 1 year boxer, he can hit me with the jab, I have problems. Why? I've never learned how to hit someone in the face who was trying to stop me and hit me back. The act of sparing is teaching me how to use this motion of the jab. No instructor can teach it. It requires me to get punched in the face and punch people in the face until I learn it.

Quote:
Amir Krause wrote: View Post
a. YOU have not practiced it enough
Just last week my Sensei asked us to practice Ikkyo against a Jab. Even in this specific and supposedly basic Waza, my partner kept failing while I had no problem at all and kept asking him to increase the pace, retract the Jab and launch a second etc. The reason was simple - he only practiced for a couple of years I have over a decade of practicing on him, and we used a practical variation of the technique which was beyond his abilities to control, so I had to help him make it work.
True, time will help develop technique. But personally I had more effective technique in a few months of bjj and judo then most people with years of non-sparing martial arts training. I've seen guys come to train with us with 5, 10, even 15 years exp and just get overwhelmed. They are very technique when drilling, but they do not know how to do their techniques. And if self defense is a concern (for me it is not), do you want to be able to defend yourself in a few months, or in 10 years?

Quote:
Amir Krause wrote: View Post
b. YOU miss identify the opportunity
This is one of my own major areas of development in the last couple of years, learning to correctly identify the opportunities for technique, and then apply the suitable technique. The difficulty is mostly in timing - the technique has to be there with the opportunity, if you have only saw the situation and then started thinking of the suitable technique, made up your mind and started moving, you will always be late and your technique will never work.
In my own mind, this is one of the more difficult part of Aiki to grasp, also known as softness and harmony -- utilizing any movement of an attacker for your technique set up. There are higher levels, such as channeling a non-cooperating attacker intent in your favor (much more difficult then the above which only requires you to "read his intent" and act on it).
I can't argue that this is a problem for new students. It took me a long time to learn how to setup judo throws properly. I'm just now getting the hang of doing judo without thinking. However, I think the reason it took so long was because my previous instructors focused on uchi komi rather then randori. So while I was told to do X when a person goes Y, I didn't learn it with my body until I got to work it out on the mat against a person bent on drilling me into the ground.

Quote:
Amir Krause wrote: View Post
c. Your teacher never taught you the technique in a practical way
A sad yet true fact for some, is that not all teachers understand \ care about practical techniques. Some teachers never learned how to practically utilize a technique themselves. I remember a Demo by a respected Aikido teacher, who tried to show Aikido is applicable to self defense, simply by increasing the speed in the demo, I was disappointed because Uke kept attacking in a telegraphed way, and gave up his own stability in advance, but the more disappointing thing was the teacher kept his techniques long and based on multiple-steps, and only increased his speed. The techniques were not instantaneous and the circles were huge (which practically left lots of room for Uke to regain his balance and counter).
I agree, this can be a major problem, even in the bjj world I have met teachers who do long drawn out stuff to look cool, vs training the basics that work at all skill levels.

Quote:
Amir Krause wrote: View Post
Consistently practicing with "Free style play" can enhance your ability regarding the identification of opportunities (at least, this is our belief in Korindo Aikido and the one of the reasons we practice Kyoshu/Randori, see here for explanations - http://www.freewebz.com/aikido/lecture/unit6.htm). But, free play is always limited by your own model and safety, thus rendering it unreliable for any proof - I have seen people falling from bad techniques due to unjustified fear of a black belt (happened to me more then once).
That is a lesson in itself about effective technique. Sometimes it's what you can make people think you can do, rather then what you actually can. Thus the blackbelt can throw you with a crappy technique by leading your mind into thinking it is a strong one. Good life lesson for the person getting throw, and good training for him to learn to overcome it.

Quote:
Amir Krause wrote: View Post
Lots of people often talk of practicing against resistance. Personally , I fail to see how one could really train Aikido style damaging locks against a resisting person without injury. How can you distinguish muscular and structural resistance? You should overcome the first, but if you crush trough the second you will create damage.
It's funny, I use these damaging locks all the time against my training partners in sparing. They tap out, we reset and keep going. There have been sprains and slight injures from people who were not used to or ready for them, but nobody is crippled or dead as I've been lead to believe. Of course I have the will power to give up a technique if it looks like the other person is being pig headed. It's not about wining or losing. I will choke or armbar many a noob and just let go and go to another technique rather then hurt them because they are too new to know when to tap. I still learned the effectiveness, I still learned about the setup and how people will defend. And I learned about control and keeping my ego in check.

But anyways, sparing is a lot more then just body conditioning or exercise. It is the best way to teach someone how to learn to apply the theory they are learning everyday in class. I feel sorry for those out there who do not understand why they are doing it and what they can gain with the right mindset. I feel even more sorry for those who don't do it at all.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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