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Old 09-05-2007, 02:44 AM   #244
wildaikido
Dojo: Hans de Jong Self Defence School
Location: Perth
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 239
Australia
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Re: What technique would you apply to neutralize Brazilian Jujitsu attacker

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
Nothing at all, but my questions is so simple a child can answer it. What are you doing to train atemi?

Lets try this out.

I'm a white belt, I ask you what I should do to practice my atemi. Are you going to tell me to practice awareness? What are you going to tell me?
If you are a white belt training in Yoseikan, the first technique you are going to learn is escaping from a gyaku hanmi katate dori, or jun katate dori as we call it in Yoseikan. From here, we escape and strike. We have a small number of kata to practice striking, we have kihon to practice striking, lots of different exercises that at lower level that develop precision. At high grades we grab bags and pads then we start striking targets with power and speed. But my point is this is nothing new, most people train in strikes this way.

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
If you tell me practice my awareness, I am going to then ask, what can I do to practice my awareness to improve my atemi?
I am always going to say be aware, when someone gets injured, I am going to tell the defender that he needs to be more aware when training. When two uke fall into each other, I am going to say be more aware. Awareness, in my opinion, and in Mochizuki Kancho's, is the key to budo.

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
Then you are sticking with the "it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you are mindful." I then submit that you are wasting your time training aikido. You already know you just need to be mindful, so why not use your time somewhere better spent? You are not learning anything that can't be learned working a spare job for cash, helping be a big brother or sister for kids in trouble communities, etc. You can do all that mindfully and be just as competent in self defense.
The awareness you develop on a crowded mat is one of the most useful things you can apply to real life. Look at driving your car and sitting in traffic, some people (including me) get annoyed by selfish drivers who only care about themselves, and them get were they need to go, even at the expense of others. No one trains like this on the mats in Aikido, you may have to be patient and wait your turn, and be courteous to the others on the mat. Imagine if everyone did Aikido and learnt these values and then applied them to something like driving, how wonderful the world would be! Aikido is not just about self defence! Open your mind!

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
At this point you have basically told the white belt no useful information, he is not going to get better, be discouraged and quit. In the context of this conversation, you are not adding anything and are in no way allowing anyone to learn from or analyze your methods and comment.

The core question is, what methods and drills are you doing while you are mindful which improves your direct ability to punch a person in the face when he is trying to hurt you? Without an answer, I can only assume nothing. Which leads me to assume you are making an uniformed statement based on the stories of a long dead man.
Your disrespect of men like Mochizuki and Ueshiba leads me to ask, why are you studying Aikido, and if you aren't, why are you on an Aikido board?

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
Again, what kind of consistent mindful training? Are you really saying playing chess, painting, walking the dog, jumping jacks, will improve your chances at hitting the button?
No, but all of these things will help you avoid the situation in the first place. Then why does a dog walker or chess player need to know how to knock someone out, if they no not to get caught in unfavourable situations, or what streets not to walk?

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
However, you have posed a new question with this. How long do you expect it to take to reach this level?
All I can say for sure is that after 9 years, I could lay out an 8 year old, or a granny, or the punk who was high on drugs that I defended myself against, with a punch to the chin. In all of these situations I would not need to do this, in the last one I didn't!

To do the same to a MMA who competes, I have no idea how much training I will need! I suspect more than him. But right now, I will go to the ground with him. But still probably lose, I am not deluded. I would like to never have to fight on the ground, and maybe one day I will be able to do the fabled techniques. But most importantly I never plan to be in a situation were I need to defend my self against a MMA, eg the octagon!

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
Is this time well spent if your goal is being able to defend against a grappler?
My goal is self defence against the most likely attacker, I don't think someone sniffing drugs is going to be training in BJJ. So, YES. He may pull me down to the ground and try stuff because watching the UFC he has got the bright idea that "ground fighting is the best."

[quote=Don Magee;188653]Are more direct methods of defense against a grappler (such as bjj, judo, etc) not going to foster the same awareness?

How many times do I need to tell you I train to fight on the ground! Yoseikan Aikido includes the ground fighting from judo. My personal experience of cleaning up a black belt in judo here I Australia, every time on the floor, and then having my arse handed to me by a purple belt Yoseikan Aikidoka in the US, tells me that the ground fighting we do is good.

I think the point here is that you can be that good, to achieve it takes your life time, then you probably won't ever need or want to use it.

Regards,

Graham Wild
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