Thread: Yonkyo
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Old 08-17-2000, 01:44 PM   #7
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 5,999
Chris wrote:

First of all, I have read your quote of Cas Long's post and nowhere do I find any mention of the word 'pain', so I was wondering where you made the association?
Her mentioning the necessity to manipulate the radial nerve is what brings me to think about pain in this instance.

I'm curious -- is there a way to compress the radial nerve and not cause pain?

Having said that, I am wondering why ‘O'-Sensei would have spent many long arduous years codifying the techniques of Aikido into the specific groupings that we know today
Inasmuch as I understand it, he didn't. The naming schemes and the categorization of the techniques were applied by his students, not by the founder. I could be wrong, though...
if balance-breaking was the sole function and purpose of the techniques. After all, there are easier ways to unbalance someone than Nikyo or Sankyo!
I never said that the sole purpose of techniques was kuzushi. I just said that the kuzushi aspect for me is more important than the causastion of pain that so many people I've met focus on.
On page 49 of ‘O'-Sensei's training manual Budo it states in the note for technique 15. (Yonkyo):
"Placement of your (left) hand in this technique is as follows: hold the opponent's wrist tightly with both the little and ring fingers and use the knuckle at the base of the index finger to apply strong pressure to his pulse.
I used to have a copy of the original "Budo Renshu" that the founder wrote in Japanese. I wish I still had it.

However, no where above does the founder refer to "pain"...

The technique's definition is after all ‘Tekubi Osae' or wrist pinning or control.
"Osae" comes from the verb "osaeru" which basically means "to hold down."
I would say that 'pain' is a by-product of the technique being executed correctly.
As you have rightly pointed out, Yonkyo is still possible without ‘pain', so the complete form of the technique must be studied from the initial un-balancing right up to the final pin.
That's about all I wanted to say.
I would venture to suggest the you slightly misinterpreted the sense of Cas's post, since she spoke only of finding it difficult to locate the radial nerve and cause compression in certain body types and then went on to say that full use of the hips and body is necessary to complete the movement and un-balance Uke.
I can't certainly say what Cas meant because I'm not her. I took what she wrote about needing to compress the radial nerve as meaning that you have to cause pain. And, as I wrote above, I ventured to say that pain is not necessary in yonkyo (or nikyo, sankyo, etc).

I do apologize if I misinterpreted Cas as that was not my intention. I just personally dislike it when people think yonkyo is a good time to take Jun's otherwise spindly little forearm and crush it to bits; makes me want to poke out an eyeball or two...

-- Jun

PS: Good discussion, by the way.

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