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Old 04-15-2007, 07:09 PM   #41
DonMagee
Location: Indiana
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Re: MMA as catalyst for change in Aikido?

Quote:
Paul Sanderson-Cimino wrote: View Post

I admit I'm a little confused by this. In my experience, a good uke strikes in such a way that they could hit or miss and in neither case be off-balance. Rather, nage does something (blocks, deflects, evades, etc.) that makes uke unwillingly lose balance; they then try to regain it over the course of the technique, while nage keeps them moving with tai sabaki and atemi. (Although I have seen a technique or two that seems to be versus a "suicide attack" where uke -does- throw him or herself off balance with the force of the strike. But that's the exception.)
Perhaps off balance is a bad way to put it. To put it bluntly they are punching incorrectly with poor form that lends itself to getting tossed. A real striker strikes with good footwork, at a proper distance (which is not the distance an aikidoka wants you to strike at), and throw combos. None of that happens in most aikido drills I have experienced nor seen online. Watch a video of a boxer doing drills, watch his footwork, hands, etc. Then watch an aikidoka punching. I think the difference is night and day.

Quote:
Paul Sanderson-Cimino wrote: View Post
I've seen aikido waza where nage uses an irimi movement, coupled with a sort of outside 'guarding block' (rather than deflecting block) to perform something essentially similar to shomenuchi iriminage. Ever tried this sort of thing? What makes it hard in practice?
That sounds like a gross muscle movement. I do similar things all the time to get to the clinch. I just go for easy takedowns that have a higher percentage chance of me being in a good position on the ground so I can strike. If I was in a street fight, I might want to remain standing and probably would not be doing takedowns that bring me to the ground as well. Lucky for me, I do not street fight.

Quote:
Paul Sanderson-Cimino wrote: View Post
Interesting. Just to clarify: do you think they work better in BJJ because of the lack of gloves/tape? Despite not being able to use atemi in BJJ?
Exactly, the gloves prevent pressure and control of the wrist. In fact I had one guy in a wrist lock from omaplata in a mma sparing match. I had tons of pressure on his wrist, but he would not tap. He said it hurt mildly. Later I did the same submission to him in a pure bjj situation, he tapped immediately and vocally.

Quote:
Paul Sanderson-Cimino wrote: View Post
I'm trying to visualize this. What sorts of aikido techniques require you to "reach"?
By reach I mean your hands are not guarding your face. A boxer can block and strike without letting his guard down. Aikido techniques typically a) do not use the guard and b) require you to control a limb. Both of these things are done in potential striking range. MMA practitioners usually move into a tight clinch before attempting throws, this limits striking ability. I am aware that proper body movement would limit striking ability with aikido moves, however in practice this is very hard to do well.

Quote:
Paul Sanderson-Cimino wrote: View Post
"If your opponent is off balance, you are in a world of trouble in MMA." I'm guessing that's a typo, but I'm having some trouble figuring out what you meant to type.
This should be if your opponent is not off balance. Sorry I typoed. See with a judo or aikido style throw, you must take balance asap or you are at great risk. (think about Ippon seonage without proper kauzshi). With the clinch throw wrestling style, such as single legs from the clinch and body locks, you can work the position, then take the balance while you are safe. Aikido techniques require you to have the balance even sooner then judo, and judo is hard to do in MMA. Imagine you trap a hand and attempt an aikido technique, typically both your hands are now not in front of your face, therefor your chin is exposed, if you do not have proper kazushi the moment you grab the hand, you are going to eat a punch, and the MMA guy is ok with taking one to really hit you. Not only that, but attempting to grapple at that range will not stop him from just clinching and dragging you down. Have you done aikido drills where someone punches at you then trys to just grab on and drag you down while you attempt an aikido technique? It is very hard to keep proper distance with someone determined to clinch with you.

Quote:
Paul Sanderson-Cimino wrote: View Post
That sounds very reasonable. Have you ever tried casual sparring with those rules relaxed? Perhaps substituting hand-taps for punches or downward elbows to the back of the head or neck? If you have tried something like that, did it significantly drop the "success rate" or "percentage" of wrestling-style takedowns?
I have done some sparing that allowed light slaps on shots, and some sparing that allowed full blow elbows. In both cases I was hit, in both cases I was not injured. However that is not my point. My point is that if you fail the takedown, you are on all fours and in a better position then if you fail an ippon seonage, or any other standing throw. With aikido throws that fail you are very open to strikes, with judo throws that fail, you just gave your back standing. With single and double legs, you are turtled and safe from kicks, most punches, etc and have an easier time to recover. Of course this is bad for the street where you would get head stomped.

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- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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