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Old 04-07-2007, 08:38 PM   #23
Pete Rihaczek
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 61
Re: The internal 'how to' thread... let's hope

Chris Hein wrote: View Post
Respectfully, what you guys are saying, and what I am saying is in fact the same thing.

First off.

Pete. Maybe just maybe what you are calling internal and what I am calling internal are different. [snip]
Well, what you just wrote there is a contradiction. On the one hand you're claiming we're all saying the same thing, then you say we're using the word internal to describe different things. I understand the meaning you want to give to the word "natural", and that's fine even though it's not the common usage, but it still doesn't sound the same to me. Even if it was, saying "keep one point" and "move naturally" should mean the same thing then, and they're therefore equally useless in getting much.

Also from a basic common sense standpoint, if I were to say X, and you say that doesn't sound anything like what you were thinking, where would be my basis to claim we're talking about the same thing over your objection? Like I said, this can't be talked around, it can only be demonstrated. Then and only then are you sure what the other person is trying to say.

And for the record, I find these ki tests relatively meaningless. Once someone publishes a test, people can work on just doing whatever the test is. That's not the point. The point is that someone who can do these things could pass all manner of tests on the fly as a byproduct of their training. The reverse is not true - passing the tests doesn't mean you can do much of anything else. As a practical matter, if you know what you're looking for you don't need any tests, you can easily feel what someone knows. You can often see it by looking at them too, once you know what to look for. If you know it, tests are pointless, and if you don't know it...tests are pointless.

For example, here's Chen Xiao Wang (direct descendant of the family that created Taiji, and best of his generation) doing some rooting demos for fun:

But does this really show what he's capable of? No. If you can duplicate these things, can you do what he does in the general sense? No. If you tried pushing him, grabbing him, putting a lock on him, taking a hit from him, would you be impressed, and know why people make a big deal out of it? Yes, very much. Probably more like shocked. If at that point you want to say it's "natural" movement cavemen did, I would still disagree (and I doubt you'd say that anymore), but at least we'd all be on the same page as far as what exactly is being discussed. Then you can get to the discussion of how to do this stuff, how to train it, and all the rest.
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