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Old 03-31-2007, 09:05 PM   #67
Ecosamurai's Avatar
Dojo: Takagashira Dojo
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 557
United Kingdom
Re: Internal Power in your Aikido

Dan Harden wrote: View Post
FWIW I don't ignore you I just don't like reading the insults and characterizations you pepper your posts with. Nor do enjoy responding to you as I see you as baiting me.
I also don't like debating on the internet with folks who clearly don't have equal skills arguing with me over what I can or can't do. It's boring, I have to be in the mood.
If I have appeared to be baiting you, then I sincerely apologise. It was not my intention to do so.

I do feel that much of what you say is deliberately phrased to promote yourself and your abilities without answering the proper and worthwhile questions I sometimes put your way. I shall address each of your statements made below in the following spirit. Please note I do not doubt that you have these skills. I have only ever questioned your motivation in the way you present them here on these forums. I may be completely wrong about all of this but that is the nature of the internet and non-verbal communication, we both risk being misconstrued.

Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Uhm....your previous posts about tests like
"walking into me?"

How about 310 pound 6.3" MMA guy pile-driving into me one after another for half an hour. WIth me standing there? about a Holy Cross defensive end trying to slam me into the lockers?
Uhm...Collegiate wresttlers trying to take me down?
Power lifters at the gym while I stand there looking at them?
Please define and describe "pile into me", perhaps it is an Americanism I may misunderstand.

When the 'Holy Cross defensive end tried to slam you into the lockers' (btw for the benefit of non-US people what is a Holy Cross defensive end?). Did you stand there and he simply bounced off you? Or did you use your hands to resist his movements? Did you move your feet?

Collegiate wrestlers try to take you down? Please describe this process and describe in detail how they attempted to 'take you down' including descriptions of where they placed their hands how they moved their feet and where you placed/moved your hands and feet.

Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Ki tests?
Lets see. Today at a mini-seminar with folks from right here I had guys pushing on my chest while I stood on leg and then went up on my toes.
Then pushing on my head with me on my toes on one leg, then pushing on my back in between my shoulders with me up on my toes. There were losts of people in the room.
These are standard ki Soc tests. Standing on one leg is in fact a test used for assessment of Ki Soc rank. The Ki Soc test of 'standing naturally' involves standing with feet shoulder width apart and having the heels rest lightly on the ground (effectively tip toes in terms of balance and execution of principle). From your above description above I too can say I have had people do these things to me. I do not claim to be able to do 'Ueshiba's aiki'. Please explain how the things you do are different from what I do when people test me this way when standing on one leg or on tip toes?

Dan Harden wrote: View Post
We also showed a training method for "giving up" structure and being overcome backwards on one one foot. You are stretched out and ready to fall over with a fellow pushing you over on your chest. I had new guys learning how to recover from that.
Please explain how this is different from how I teach people to 'recover posture when they get overwhelmed during a ki test', meaning that if I push on your shoulder and you allow your shoulder to move backwards by not stopping my ki from entering your body, you can recover your posture by moving from your centre and regaining control of your hips by doing so.

Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Then some repeat guys learning to handle moving attacks themselves.
I don't really see them as meaningfull. I like moving and fighting as a better test anyway
As do I

Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Lost track of fighting with takedown resistense, lock resistence, and power strikes and kicks.
I emphasize strikes and kicks less but I emphaiseze resistance as much as I can with my senior students.

Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Why not talk about

This stuff is in Aikido
Men who've trained with Ushiro, Mike, Rob or me keep coming back and training and they....claim it's relevant to aikido.
Can teach this stuff and pass it on.

I think that's more interesting then another debate over whether or not it CAN be done.
I have never debated with you that it can be done. I also believe that you personally have these abilities. I too have some of them. I am interested in a discussion of the extent of yuor abilities and I think this would be a worthwhile addition to the debate. I stated in a previous post in response to George Ledyard who I think can teach these things and I included you and Mike Sigman in this list. I think it is worthwhile to discuss who
can do these things and to what extent they can do these things.

Your descriptions are vague, from my present point of view this seems deliberate and so I call it hubris and question your motivations. I am sorry if this causes you undue offense but it is a worthy point of debate. I would have absolutely no problem giving you a very public apology if needed.

Would you care to explicitly answer my questions in as much detail as possible? It may simply confirm that you are indeed as good as you appear to be based on statements from yourself and things people who have trained with you have said. It may also expose interesting things for you and your students to consider, exactly in the same manner as your statements here seem to be intended to encourage aikidoka to expand their own practice in accordance to the use of internal principles.

I am not baiting you. I am sincerely interested in understanding what exactly it is that you can do in terms of internal skills. I do not have all of the abilities you describe as they appear to be from your descriptions. I am very interested in learning more about this and I have the needed experience (and gumption too I think) that allows me to ask fairly intelligent questions concerning these issues (at least I like to think so I hope that you can prove me wrong via informed debate/discussion).


Mike Haft

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
-Martin Luther King Jr
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