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Old 03-22-2007, 08:39 AM   #66
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
Re: Ki, Aiki, Aikido. The 'internal stuff' that never left Aikido

Mike Haft wrote: View Post
I respectfully disagree with that, I haven't seen you mention it anywhere (although I may have missed something so I'll go back and look again, but you do have greater than 2000 posts to your name so....).

I'll offer the first three levels of 'standing naturally' here for you to look at if you wish to, and because others may be curious too:

1) Tester gently applies pressure between shoulder blades and also places hand on the front of the shoulder applying pressure in a straight horizontal line.

2)Same as test 1, only this time there is a fake or hesitation thrown in, tester stops just before they make contact and alters the test. This is to determine if the receiver is anticipating the incoming test, it is often failed because people try to resist the pressure and fight against it. When the tester stops short they often lean forwards into where the hand would have been. For the test on the front, tester aims to test at the shoulder, stops and lowers the hand to push on the ribs instead.

3) Tester stands 3-5 paces away, in front of partner, gives a vigorous tekubi shindo undo then walks in purposefully and places hand on the shoulder pushing straight ahead. Same from the rear only pressure is applied between the shoulder blades.

For all tests receiver should be standing shoulder width apart, should be standing upright and should have the knees unlocked and the heels hovering just above the floor.
This is sort of like the descriptions of O-Sensei's jo trick. In reality, I never saw a video of him fully pulling it off (he had to move almost immediately), the pushers appear to be pretty obviously adding a certain amount of fake to it, and so on. Yet, if you take the jo-trick and do it in some places, they're going to pull out 3 football linemen who will use all the force at their disposal. If you can't withstand this massive force, regardless of the fact that O-Sensei never could either, people will say "Oh, you can't do the jo-trick, so you're no where near the level of O-Sensei". If you see what I mean... and we're talking about things that are on videos.

In your descriptions, let me just be brief and say that I understand what you're getting at, but we might be picturing different forces. Any martial artist who uses jin/kokyu forces will get better and better. My comment to Ki-Society people was that I felt they could do better... at least the ones I felt.... and I encouraged them to keep looking. You considered that condescending.

In terms of "tests", they're good for learning. But after a certain point, you wind up with guys who can do the "tests" pretty well, but they have no other skills. That was the essence of what I've been saying to the Ki-Society people (but it's an encouragement... I think some of them are off to a good start, frankly). Just stopping at basic skills and "tests" is to leave money on the table, IMO. Instead of being able to hold a 30-pound push to the back, etc., why not start learning how to use the hara better and more articulately? Why not learn how to release power? And so on. The levels of testing ability can be limiting if that's what people focus on, IMO.


Mike Sigman
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